Friday, September 5, 2008

LOF 4-6

What are some examples of relationships between the characters? What is the building block of these relationships and what is breaking them apart? Describe an instance when you had a relationship with a friend that fell apart. Why did it fall apart? Can you personally connect to what is happening to the boys on the island?

Also, start thinking symbolically about some of the boys. What do each of the boys stand for? What do they symbolize?


jordang2012 said...

So far, we've established the standing points on a few characters. Jack is a headstrong boy with an ambition for leading. Ralph is a more civilized boy, looking for a way to keep things under control. Piggy is a nervous boy, who is afraid to go out of his comfort zone. Jack has a respectable relationship with Ralph. He respects him, whereas he could care less for Piggy. Ralph cares for both of them, but it seems that he respects Jack a little more than Piggy. Piggy is afraid of standing up for anything at this time. That is why he isn't respected by Jack much, but Ralph notices this, and knows that he is most likely the wisest of the trio, and understands that. If I ever had to describe a relation ship that fell apart was when I didn't come into contact with my friend, and that just put a wedge in between the both of us. Personally, I can't really connect with the boys on the island. I'm not a quiet/wise kid like Piggy. I'm not a leader like man such as Ralph. I'm not a brash, headstrong jerk like Jack.

robertc2012 said...

I think that Piggy is the smartest boy out of all of them. He shows the most insight, the most caution, and the most realistic and sensible ideas. He's the one that is vital to the survival of the boys, but he is not as popular as the others. Jack and Ralph both compete for the position of leader, even though Ralph has already been elected. However, Jack is becoming more and more threatining to Ralph as the book goes on.

mariep2012 said...

I agree with both Jordan and Robert's reasonings, but I do think that there is more to it than that. When we first see them on the island, Piggy has a low self-esteem and clings to others for the support that he needs, which is Ralph in the situation. Ralph is a natural leader that takes that spot at once. Jack is, as Jordan said, a brash, headstrong jerk. But a major theme that we can get out of this is change. All the major characters in this story are finding a whole different side to themselves than they ever thought they were capable of. When Jack finds and kills the first pig, he doesn't intend on giving Piggy any. But Piggy stands up to him and says something like, "And where's my piece?"

Ralph is finding himself to. Although he has been a natural leader the whole time as I said before, he is starting to find the adult in him. At the first meeting, he tells the boys that they are going to have fun fun fun. But after a while as he starts to think things through more rationally as an adult would, he sees that they need to spend more time finding ways to survive than playing.

As for Jack, we see the rebel and savage-like part of him start to surface. When he attempts to kill a pig in the early chapters, he fails. But as he is starting to find the wild side in him, killing a pig isn't so hard anymore.

Anonymous said...

Here's my run-down of all the important characters I've met so far...
Ralph is very much the role of the leader. Even if he is making a decision that isn't in the best interest of the party, the other children usually listen to him.
Jack is very stubborn, and a rebel. It seems that he thinks that all of this "being trapped on an island" scenario is all a game, hunting pigs, searching for "beasts", exploring... I could go on, but I think everyone gets the point.
Piggy is the exact opposite of Jack. He is very wise and patient, and probably has better ideas about what to do than even Ralph does. But, because of his grotesque appearance, none of the children really listen to him. Ralph seems to enjoy having Piggy as a sort of advisor.
Simon is quiet, and hasn't really been exposed in the story so far. He is probably the nicest of the boys, and reminds me a lot of someone who would sit in class, know all the answers, but never really answer them. He is also very loyal to Ralph, and I think that this connection could become useful in the future.

The Ralph-Jack relationship is a fragile one, but an easy one to fix. When the fire is let out, Ralph becomes furious with Jack, but later they come out laughing and smiling together. The Ralph-Piggy relationship is a bit stronger, and hasn't really broken yet. Ralph protects Piggy in a way, although this could just be because Ralph wants to be rescued and he needs Piggy's glasses to light the fire. This could be a great conflict in the future, but I don't think it would actually happen. Ralph also relies on Piggy for his wits, Piggy being the smartest of the boys on the island. The Ralph-Simon relationship is a bit cloudy at the moment, but they do seem to be friendly to each other. Simon is loyal to Ralph, and that is what matters for the moment.
The Jack-Piggy relationship is not good for the other boys. Jack is excrutiatingly mean to Piggy, because Piggy is the only one who won't stand up for himself. The littluns are being influenced by these mean guestures to insult Piggy themselves. Jack is a bad influence, and he is probably the most dangerous and traitorous of the boys. I think that he and Ralph, competing for leadership, will have to settle their dispute one way or another, even if it means harming one another.

One instance when I lost a friend was when he started going out with a girl. It all began with her, because I had History class with her, and sat at the same table. We'd talk to each other, because we were friends, but my other friend accused me of flirting with her, which I was not, and immediately started hating me.

I can't really connect to what's happening on the island, for I've never been in a difficult situation with a bunch of peers surrounding me. If I was, I'd probably back out and survive on my own, though. I can't connect to any of the boys, except for possibly Piggy. I've been shunned for being smart before. People would ask me to do their work for them, and when I said no, they'd tell everyone to just not like me because I wouldn't do their work for them.

I think that Ralph symbolizes Leadership, Responsiblity, and Courage. Ralph was elected leader just because the children could see how he held himself like a leader, they could see that he would be responsible, and when the "beast from air" was seen, it was Ralph who wanted to go investigate.
Piggy symbolizes Intelligence, for although people shun him, he always has a great idea, and Ralph begins to ask Piggy for aid because of this. Ralph senses that Piggy is the smartest on the island and could be the best to consult if the children were to survive on the island.
Jsck is symbolizes Stubborness and Strength, and goes after the pigs just for a bit of meat, even if it means risking the chance of being rescued. He was strong enough to kill the pig this time, and was proud of it, and some might even say he was Arrogant, because of the chanting and excessive pride he took in just killing a pig.
Simon is the reincarnation of Loyalty. No matter what anyone says or does, he is always by Ralph's side. This is a good quality, and if they are to be rescued, I think that Simon would be great and succesful in the world, possibly even more so than anyone else on the island.

justinp2012 said...

Of what I’ve read so far, the relationship of these characters are very interesting. Everyone respects the leader, Ralph, except Jack and some of the hunters, who just don’t seem accept his authority. He gets along well with Piggy, although he doesn’t pay attention to him much, and he has grown to respect him and his intellect and wisdom, which he has accepted to be much greater than anyone else in the group. Jack is the rebel in the book, who has accepted the idea of being stranded on an island to be some sort of fun game. He pretty much hates the idea of Ralph telling him what to do and wants himself to be the one with all the authority. He wants to ‘play’ by exploring the island and hunting rather than take orders from someone else, even if it helps them get off the island. He hates taking orders and wants to be independent, whether it helps or not. Simon is very quiet but has a good heart and likes to help people. He is very kind and will have some part in the story, but hasn’t been too much of a part in it so far. The ‘littluns’ are the least respected but play a large role in being innocent enough to be able to see and believe in the ‘beast’, and has informed the older ones about it.

Different characters and their relationships have different building blocks that help their friendship last. The relationship between Piggy and Ralph is strong, yet not expressed very strongly. Ralph relies on Piggy’s wisdom and intelligence, and Piggy relies on Ralph to tell everyone his thoughts and ideas, since no one listens to him, due to his appearance (being fat and wearing unattractive glasses). There is nothing that can break this friendship apart, so it seems. The relationship between Jack and Ralph is halfway between strong and heading for disaster. They attack each other frequently and Jack has no respect for Ralph’s authority. However, after every fight, they make up and they’re back to laughing together like best friends. The frequent disagreements are bound to break them up sooner or later. Simon is not respected too much, but is respected more than Piggy. He is quiet and is impossible for me to foresee where his relationship with anyone else is going, since we have not seen much of him yet.

So far in my life, the only time I a relationship with a friend has fallen was when we had a disagreement over a cookie in first grade. Although we made up right afterwards, it wasn’t a very good experience. In my life, I have had no experience that I can connect with the boys on this island so I cannot personally relate to anything in the book yet.

The different boys have different characteristics, which can be made to symbolize many things, like how when order (Ralph) and the wild (Jack) collide, everything gets out of balance. Piggy is knowledge and good sense, but is ignored when trouble is stirring up with the ‘Beast’. Simon is kind-heartedness, which is important in keeping it all together in turmoil. When everything that is possible that can go wrong does, the sensibility of Piggy and the kindness of Simon is what kept the group together. At least for now.

robertc2012 said...

Marie P.- Wow, that was a really good comment. You're right, everyone on the comment is discovering things inside of them that they never knew before. Some are bad, and some are good,

Megg2012 said...

After reading chapters 4-6, I realized how important characters are to a book.
I agree with mariep that change is key to the characters development. I think that the relationship between Ralph and Jack may be important. I think Ralph represents leadership. The fault that I saw in him was that he is having trouble enforcing the rules.
Piggy, to me, represents timidity and intelligence. I think Piggy has great ideas, but no one respects him, so his ideas go unheard. Jack represents opposition and selfishness. He is always opposing what Ralph says, and always does things opposite of the rules. Also, he represents selfishness, because he was too intent on killing the pig to realize that the fire was out.
I think that Simon is trying to connect with Ralph and have a relationship with him. He gets embarrassed when he is around Ralph (he ran into a tree) which shows that he respects Ralph, and wants his approval. I am going to be watching that relationship.
Also, the relationship between Ralph and Piggy seems to be weakening. At the beginning of the book, it looked like Ralph liked Piggy. He gave him control of taking all the boys names, and would talk to him. Now it seems like Ralph is growing distant from Piggy. He doesn’t respect Piggy, even when Piggy has the conch. I think that the reason that these relationships fall apart is because of peer influence. Because all the boys didn’t like Piggy, maybe Ralph feels pressured not to like him either.
I don’t think I can really connect with anything so far, except maybe the feeling of great accomplishment. Jack gets this feeling when he kills the pig. Ralph gets this when he has the idea to start the fire. Piggy gets this when his specs are used for the fire. I also get this feeling sometimes
I can’t wait to find out what happens with the development of the characters during this book.

jordang2012 said...

A very good comment Marie.

jonathanp2012 said...

Some examples of the relationships between the characters in The Lord of the Flies are the relationship between Piggy and Ralph, Piggy and Jack, Ralph and Simon and Ralph and Jack. Piggy and Ralph have an interesting relationship. Piggy wants Ralph to understand him more and accept his views, but Ralph does not and in the fourth chapter his friendly feelings towards Ralph soon changes to resentment. Piggy and Jack's relationship is fairly straight forward, Piggy absolutely abhors Jack because Jack makes fun of Piggy and puts him down every time he sees him. Really they do not have a relationship at all. Simon and Ralph have a strong relationship because Simon's goodness towards life and his work ethic makes Ralph feel good about what he is doing as a leader. Without Simon, Ralph would have resigned his position as the leader of the island because he thought he was getting nowhere but Simon reassured him that he was doing well, which boosted Ralph's confidence as the leader of the island. Ralph and Jack have an on and off type of relationship. At the beginning of the story Ralph and Jack are teamed up with each other as the leaders of the island but as time goes by Ralph gets mad at Jack for not doing his job as the head hunter of the island and their relationship starts to wither away, but when they take an expedition to try and find the "beast" their sense of leadership had reignited the bond that they once had.

One time I had a really good friend but one summer he received the news that he was moving to California and when he moved their we tried to keep in touch, but as time passed by we didn't talk anymore. Therefore we did not keep in touch anymore and I have not spoken to him in about 5 years. I can't really connect to what is happening to the boys on the island but I know that it is not going to be good and their sense of survival will soon turn to savageness.

Ralph symbolizes the human beings' civilizing instinct and is a natural leader. Jack symbolizes the instinct of savagery within human beings with the bloodlust that he has. Simon symbolizes the kind of natural goodness and is the godliest spirited character in the story. Piggy symbolizes the scientific, rational side of civilization and the intelligence in society.

lsadler2012 said...

As I began to read this book I couldn't help but notice the fragility the boys relationships were in. In such a time of crisis and pressure the relationship could snap and the true colors of the characters become evident. In Piggy and Ralph's case, Ralph is the obvious leader in terms of strength and wisdom. Piggy is extremely wise for his years and sees the crucial aspects of their survival. I noticed his loyalty at once for Ralph and knew this would later come into play. Transcending his wisdom and ethics is the fact that he is the "weaker" boy in body. Therefore his is singled out and ignored which is detrimental to the livelihood of the boys. Jack immediately makes himself heard and seen and his aggressive and dominant persona is obvious. The only real thing uniting the boys is their similar circumstance and desire to survive and be rescue. This eventually will drive them apart by the constant battles of leadership and dominance so often found in times when authority is no where to be found and ego is huge. Personally in my life I have had many relationships that fell though. This wasn't due to the fact that we were deserted on an island fighting to live, but it had the same tendencies. Lack of the same interest was major and basically just growing apart as we both matured and developed different ideas. Most people would say they would have a difficult time connecting with such strange circumstances, but I say that we all have had to make rash decisions that could alter our lives and most of us at one time have been singled out in a judgmental crowd of young kids.

Brianc2012 said...

I think that so far in the book we can have a pretty good idea of what the boys are like. Piggy is a down to Earth boy who knows that they need to be rescued fast. Ralph is the natural born leader who knows what needs to be done on the island. Jack is a rebellious boy who is caught up with the excitement of being able to hunt and fight. If Jack and Ralph have a relationship it isn't very strong. Jack questions Ralph's decisions and even starts a fight if he can. As the book goes on Jack starts to get more aggressive towards Ralph and his ideas. Piggy and Ralph share some of the same ideas about getting off the island fast.
I once had a relationship fall apart with a friend because I moved away and never saw him.
I don't think I can personally relate to what's going on with the boys because I've never had to lead a group of people in perilous times. I think to truly understand what's happening with the boys you have to walk in their shoes.
If Ralph symbolizes one thing it would be courage. He was courageous to stand up and announce he will be leader of they boys, but also he stands up for his ideas if Jack tries to disagree. Piggy would symbolize wisdom because unlike most of the other boys he isn't caught up in the "dream world" of having no adults around. He knows that to be safe, they need to leave the island. Jack symbolizes strength because he likes the idea of hunting and fighting for food.

annas2012 said...

The relationships between the boys are hard to put into words. I believe Ralph has a secret respect for Piggy’s ideas and ambitions for the island, but most of the boys find Piggy annoying and taunt him because of his weight, asthma, gawky appearance, and glasses. Jack does not like Piggy at all. Jack believes he is better than Piggy and wishes for Piggy to leave him alone. Simon is shy but spends his time either alone or with Ralph. Both boys built one of the three shelters and during that time their relationship grew. Ralph and Jack have a relationship that could at any minute fall apart but they also have a boyish relationship of competition. They both want to be leader; Ralph is the more sensible leader where as Jack likes to hunt and not care about what will happen in the future. Most of the relationships are breaking apart due to the fact of survival and life on the island. While Jack and his hunters were trying to kill a pig, Ralph spotted a ship at sea which meant the fire/smoke was not visible. Their first chance at rescue was gone because jobs were not being fulfilled. Ralph was infuriated by Jack’s decision to go hunt instead of watching the fire. Their relationship moved apart a bit more.
I moved to Colorado from Chicago when I was 9, and most of my friends didn’t keep in touch. We had a few letters mailed back and forth but never an actual meeting. When I traveled back to visit; we had awkward conversations and it didn’t feel like we were still friends. It fell apart due to lack of communication and regular check ups on life. I can personally connect because my brothers seem to act the same way the family of boys act on the island. Between Gabe (11) and Colin (9) there is always rivalry and competition. Usually they try to beat each other in anything they could possibly think of! For example, last night they had a ‘who can chug their milk faster’ competition. In Lord of the Flies the boys try beat each other in games just like my own brothers. It seems very familiar.
I believe that Ralph symbolizes courage, leadership, and a person that the boys can look to for support. Ralph was only boy to confirm the existence of the beast from air. He also holds meetings and proposes ideas that could make the clan of boys stronger. Piggy is the brain of the clan, and he also symbolizes a boy who is weak on the outside, strong at heart and mind. Piggy is intelligent and comes up with ideas that can help life on the island. He is like the old wise woman of the village. Jack symbolizes strength and stubbornness. He arrogantly presented the pig as the rescuer ship left.

katiez2012 said...

When it comes to relationships of the boys so far in this book there is a pretty wide variety. I would just like to add that Jack is a jerk just as Jordan and others have said. He really doesn’t respect anyone and is really mean to Piggy who is just trying to survive like the rest of them. Ralph on the other hand is a little better. He obviously is a born leader and he is trying to make it better for everyone. He cares about Piggy and Jack too I guess but Jack doesn’t care for Piggy. Jack and Ralph definitely have a stronger relationship than Jack and Piggy but only because Piggy is too afraid to stand up for himself. Simon hasn’t been too involved in the story this far into it but he seems like a good kid. He is loyal to Ralph and I think that what Tristan said is the right idea about him.
This island scenario can be very tricky. With so much drama going on it is easy to go behind someone’s back or betray them which could be one of the causes for a relationship breaking. But building alliances and working together to try to get rescued is what can be the building blocks at this point. They only have the people they have and there is no changing that. Or is there? I’m interested to know If there will be death on this island.
A time when one of my friendships fell apart was in 7th grade. I was really good friends with this girl and we hung out all the time but then I started getting a lot of homework all the time. I couldn’t hang out as much and she took it personally and decided she didn’t want to be my friend anymore. It sucked but now we are really good friends again and look back on that and laugh because we acted like idiots.
I can’t really connect to what is happening right now. I don’t like getting myself into situations with certain leaders and such so when I see it starting I try to get away from it all. I can imagine it though. I guess you could say it’s a lot like teenagers in school. Certain people standing up for others while others just don’t respect anyone at all. It happens often.
I think each of the boys symbolize different things. Jack symbolizes anger and determination. He got that pig after all. I also think that the pig relates to Piggy the character somehow and how Jack wanted to kill it so bad and he hates Piggy so it all adds up for me. Ralph symbolizes leadership and mental strength. He always seems to be the one that knows what to do and is civil about it as well as down to earth. Piggy symbolizes intelligence and fear at the same time. He is kind of a push over. Simon, as others have said, represents loyalty. I don’t think he would ever betray or let someone down.

nickb2012 said...

Through what i've read, i agree with jordan saying that jack is the boy that wants to lead but was out-voted by ralph and they can't stand each other since jack is in charge of the "hunters" and ralph is in charge of everyone else. I also agree with robert saying piggy is the wisest. He can tell what is going to happen and warns the others but no one listens to him because Ralph doesn't listen to him. Ralph and piggy's relationship is falling apart because of this.
Then there's Jack and Ralph's relationship that was built while it fell apart in my eyes. As they were meeting each other, they were competing for leader
and figuring out who had what jobs.
Most of what is happening is because they are on a deserted island with only boys and no adults.
Ralph is more civilized and wants to make shelters when all the other boys want to do is play around and swim. Then, when jack doesn't catch any pigs ralph gets on his case.

One person no one has mentioned is Simon he snuck off to some clearing and it's beautiful there, why does he not show this to the others? Is he a selfish little boy? Did simon make this himself or did he come across it at some point?

I had a great relationship with a girlfriend that i had once and it fell apart. It was Late in the school year and we had been together for a while and then over the summer we were both really busy and we lost contact. But to fix that we could have just communicated a little more. I think thats what the boys need to do on the island- communicate more and Ralph needs to no boss everyone around so much.

I can personally connect to the boys because i used to be one of the smartest in my class but then i had to adapt and now am more of a Ralph that doesn't like doing half a job and finishing the whole thing.

I think each of the most important characters all symbolize something. I think of all the boys as a pack of lions. jack is the lion that leads on all of the attacks for war and food. Ralph is the liked but harsh leader and then piggy is the wise one that only the youngest listen to. The rest o the boys are all parts of the pack that need to help.

ericak2012 said...

In a way, I feel that Piggy is kind of the "parent" here. He is very wise and tends to dissapprove of anything that will not help them. While Ralph and Jack both seem to overlook Piggy, they all have leadership characteristics. At first, Ralph and Piggy were the only two around, that they knew of. They had established a slight friendship and you could tell that Piggy thought that Ralph respected him. Then he met Jack. Jack and Ralph are kind of friendly rivals, both wanting to lead, and they don't think that Piggy is much of a threat to that leadership. What will eventually break Ralph and Jack apart is their ambition to be the leader of all the boys on the island. What will eventually put Piggy in the leadership is his wiseness and common sense. They can only survive on the island the way Jack and Ralph are saying they should for so long.
The respect they have for eachother might now be so respectful. While Simon has found another spot where they could cleary have better living conditions, he doesn't tell them. Is it becuase he doesn't want them all there to worsen the living conditions or is it because he doesn't want his idea rejected by the supposed leaders?
All the boys are changing, you can tell that while Ralph is a leader here, he has an attitude similar to Piggy's when he is around people he knows. You can tell he craves the attention and he is going to command it while he can. Jack is used to being the leader, but not used to sharing the spotlight with someone else. And you can tell that Piggy thought he was going to have Ralph's place becuase of his wiseness, and feels slightly let down because he isn't the main leader, but more has taken on the role of the boys' parent.
Everyone can connect to what is happening to the boys on the island. No, I am not saying that everyone has gotten stranded on an island before with a bunch of boys, but I am saying that everyone has felt the feelings of all Ralph, Jack, and Piggy. Everyone has had the feeling of the leader that everyone wants to be around, everyone has had the feeling of the secondary leader, and everyone has had the insecurity in which you know you are doing the right thing but you are excluded from where the attention is.
I would also like to bring up the point that while Jack had a problem killing the pig he is able to send other people to do it. Is this a good quality for the group to have? Is he able to betray others by making other people betray them?

austin d 2012 said...

Like Robert said Piggy is the smartest of the group. He gave the initiative, and others responded. Jack tries to force the younger kids to do stuff but nothing ever seems to get done. Ralph has good ideas but he is a little stubborn to listen. He and his hunters are pointless. He may be more civilized then some but his actions and such point to him being more of an individualist. All of the kids until Piggy's speech seemed to be achieving little to none because they don’t know what to do and doubt seem to understand the severity of there situation.

The only situation I can compare this to is that of camping and you truly find out what a person is like. It has never spilt up a friendship, but it has made some closer.

samis2012 said...

Some of the relationships I’ve encountered while reading this book are the Jack-Ralph, which is one of mutual respect. Ralph is the leader and Jack respects that, but like many others have said he’s a rebel and he’s very stubborn. This relationship is very fragile has already been broken and somewhat rebuilt. Then there is the Piggy-Ralph which is a relationship that mostly a one-way kinda thing. Piggy respects and looks up to Ralph but Ralph doesn’t really respect Piggy but is nicer to him than most. Then the last major relationship I see is Ralph-group. And by group I mean all the boys on the island. Because Ralph is the leader, everyone looks up to him and respects him and listens to him. And I think he really strengthened that relationship when he called the meeting to discuss “business”, to be serious.

I have had a few instances when relationships that looked strong, but weakened suddenly and broke. One, I wouldn’t say names, was in 6th grade. I was really good friends with this girl in fourth and fifth grade, but over the summer of fifth grade she really began to change. And when we got to 6th grade she was a different person so we just kind of went our separate ways and made new friends.

Ralph is really the symbol of strength and leadership; he was thrown into this position and is handling it very well. Jack is the guy who at first you like having around but then he becomes a thorn in Ralph’s side. Piggy is the symbol of wisdom and knowledge. I really think Ralph should make Piggy his advisor because he takes the situation and looks at it realistically and logically. And he would make a great leader except for the fact that no one will listen to him.

kailynw2012 said...

To write a story about stranded boys is interesting enough, but how would a writer go about writing a story about the unseen, the felt. How would they go about writing a story about an emotion, a thing with no name or definition, and yet, something even more real then hunger or pain. Personally, I think this book is all about fear. Fear brought the boys together, and ultimately it is fear that also pulls them apart. It could definitely be argued that these boys represent certain pieces in a manmade world, or of civilization. In my mind, though they represent something even more “sketchy” then that. They represent the different ways to handle the strongest emotion of all, fear.
Relationship wise, I have recognized a few major groups. There is the quiet, but observant Simon who, in my opinion has a strong but undetected relationship with Ralph. (i.e. he always seems to be around and sometimes advises Ralph in the best road to take) Simon also has a good relationship with the younger children (chapter three reached up and helped them get ripe fruit) He isn’t seen as a threat and is trusted. There is also the younger ones, who for the most part are ignored (this bugs me!) and left to fend for themselves, they don’t have much of a relationship with anyone except themselves, and will probably grow up really fast, because they have to. There is also Piggy, who seems to try and get on everyones nerves. He might be book smart, but I think that he is actually rather dependent on everyone else, and not very street smart. (or beach smart I guess) He seems to have somewhat of an okay relationship with Ralph and quite a bad one with Jack (always seem to be arguing) and an understanding, maybe with Simon (who gave him the pig). Then there is Jack who used to be friends even, with Ralph, but who broke apart due to their different ways of dealing with the fear and insecurities they have. And then there is Ralph who does have an understanding at some level with all the boys on the island.
After moving to a new school, a lot of my previous friends and I fell apart, because of inconvenience and probably, not much incentive. If you want to stay friends with someone, however I think you can, it just takes work. On the other hand, one of my best friends and I, (meet in a daycare) although we have never gone to the same school are still really good friends to date. No, I am having a slightly hard time personally connecting to the islanders. I have been scared before, but never really for my life, and I am not sure how I would react.
Jack pretends that he is not afraid and thus has internal conflict. Ralph admits to his fear and deals with it, (admitting fear when going into the “castle”) perhaps that is why he has adapted so well. Piggy tries to make others fearful (constantly telling how they will not be rescued) to make himself feel better. And the “little ones” become tearful and upset themselves.
This makes me wonder, how Golding really meant for his story to be interpreted, and if an observer was watching me what would they see me as. Am I an extra with no real purpose but to make the story seem more realistic?

chelseac2012 said...

Though I haven’t finished reading chapters 4-6, some of the relationships are steadier than others. I agree with everyone when they say Jack is stubborn and headstrong. Piggy is sort of like a “parent” as Erica said. He certainly looks more into their situation than some others do. Ralph seems very serious about being rescued. He was angry with Jack when he found the fire dead, but Jack and Ralph seem to have relationship that is easily broken but easily fixed. Jack doesn’t like Piggy and Piggy doesn’t like Jack. Jack’s a jerk, especially to Piggy, and Piggy finally stands up for himself but Jack just get pissed off. This is when they first have pig and Piggy asks, “Aren’t I having none?” Jack: “You didn’t hunt.” Piggy points out that neither Ralph nor Simon hunted but still received the food. Simon is very kind and gives his to Piggy. Jack flips out. He cuts off more meet and throws it at Simon’s feet, “Eat! Damn you!” He glares at Simon. “Take it! I got you meat!” Jack has a short fused temper.

I remember when I was younger I had two friends who really did not like each other. At all. We would try to play together and they would quickly get into a fight. And then I was sad cause neither would talk to each other, and I was stuck in the middle not willing to choose one friend over the other. Eventually, things would be fixed and the cycle would start over again. Then they finally seemed to be like friends. And one moved. I remember my other friend saying something about she just started to like her when she moves.
I can’t really connect with what’s happening to the boys on the island. They’re little kids who are easily getting into fights but don’t really fix things yet their talking to the other again soon enough. It seems like they forget they were in a fight with someone.

ashleys2012 said...

Even from the very first page, in the very first chapter, the reader gets a sense of each character’s personality. Stereotyping also is a major factor in this novel. In the beginning of the novel, the author describes both Ralph and Piggy. Ralph, the fair haired boy, he is strong, outspoken, intelligent and a natural born leader. Piggy is pudgy, has asthma, wears glasses, has a big heart and is extremely shy and self conscious. The two are extreme opposites. These critical first impressions are the building blocks for the relationships. When the boys are designating responsibilities and jobs, they don’t look for skills, they go straight for initial impressions. This is one of the main reasons why Ralph and Jack (who is just like Ralph) pair up and are designated leaders. Piggy on the other hand sticks out like a sore thumb and is alone.
Communication is key in relationships. The lack of communication ruined one of my best relationships. This can also relate to the boys on the island. There is at times, lack of communication which leads to chaos and frustration. Chaos and frustration are not good to have when trying to work as a team.
There has been a lot of references in this novel so far to the color pink. For example on page 26 “The most unusual feature of the rock was a pink cliff surmounted by a skewed block; and that again surmounted and that again, till the pinkness became a stack of balanced rock projecting through the looped fantasy of the forest. Where the pink cliffs rose out of the ground…” I instantly made the connection with pink to pigs to Piggy. There have also been references to pigs throughout the story. Jack killing the first pig was a major deal, it was food, and he did not offer to share it first with Piggy. There is a symbolism between the color pink, the pig and Piggy. I still need to read further into the novel to decode this. If any of you have already thought of a connection, please share it with me.

kristenm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kristenm2012 said...

I think that Ralph and Jack have a relationship, in the sense that they are both after the leadership role. Piggy and Jack have a relationship because Jack hates Piggy, but Piggy is too scared to do, or say anything against Jack. As the book progresses, Jack has a strange need to become the leader and to hunt.
Through the chapters most of the boys separate from the, “one nation,” they were when they first arrived, to separate groups that really dislike each other. On the beginning Ralph was the leader because he had a certain heir that made people want to follow him, but now Jack is getting between people to try and to get them to join him against Ralph. Unfortunately for Ralph, Jack’s tricking the little ones to join him is making Ralphs followers dwindle down.
A relationship I had was when my group of friends had met someone who wasn’t the best influence, I saw right away that it wasn’t going to be a good situation. I ended up leaving that old group of friends and finding a new one, and that action turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made. Not to mention I made the great friends I still have today.

bradyp2012 said...

There is a relationship of respect between Jack and Ralph. They each respect the skills of each other. Ralph respects Jack’s hunting skills and Jack respects Ralph’s ideas. The thing that is breaking these two apart is they don’t trust each other and Jack wants to be chief and gets annoyed by Ralph when he tells him what to do. Ralph doesn’t trust Jack with keeping the fire going or his temper and Jack doesn’t trust Ralph with Piggy. He thinks Ralph always agrees with Piggy. I can relate to jack and Ralph’s relationship because I have had a relationship where it started to fall a part because we didn’t trust each other and we were jealous of each other. I can also relate to Piggy and Jack because I have been in a relationship where we did not like each other at all and we fought about everything. Piggy and Ralph have a relationship that is built off being the first two people to find the conch. They are being pulled apart by Jack because Ralph will often like Jack’s knowledge more than Piggy’s knowledge.

PeterH2012 said...

Some examples of the relationships so far are very symbolic. In the introduction to the book, it says that Ralph represents democracy, Piggy represents the people, and Jack represents dictatorship. If you take this one step further, the relationships are also symbolic of politics. Ralph decides to protect and defend piggy from jack. This is the same thing that true democracy does with the people. Jack also tries to crush the idea of a vote, but when the people see that Ralph is insisting on a vote, they stand up for themselves. Democracy insists on a vote because its fair, a dictator just wants the power. Jack makes fun of piggy, and tries to intimidate him into silence, like dictators do with the people they rule. Ralph helps Piggy not to sit back, and wont let jack keep him scared.
Not many of my friendships have been ended, they usually just fizzle out, no one gets hurt, but we don’t hang out at all. I have seen many of my friends break apart, so I can relate to being on the island watching things happen, without being involved with what’s happening. The boys are starting to experience how the first civilized people experienced. The island really represents the start of civilized man, political ideas are forming, new relationships, and means of surviving are all coming out.

hannahg2012 said...

I think that the relationships between the characters are complicated. I agree with ericak when she said that Piggy is somewhat of a "parent" to the other boys. I think he is the one who is trying to keep everyone in line and keep things in order on the island. Piggy is also very intelligent as others have mentioned. I think he deserves more credit than Jack and Ralph give him. I agree with everyone that Jack is very headstrong and wants to lead. He wants to be the one everyone else listens to and respects. I think Jack and Ralph are in somewhat of a power struggle at this point and I think that might hinder their relationship. However, when it comes to Ralph and Jack, they will most likely rebound from any conflicts that might occur and continue their friendship. I think that Jack is incredibly mean to Piggy. He shows no respect for him whatsoever. Ralph is just kind of quiet. He doesn’t show much emotion and keeps thing to himself. He is trying to lead everyone but no one seems to listen to him. I think Ralph is in the middle of the conflict between Jack and Piggy. He is friends with both of them but doesn't want to establish a side. As the book progresses the characters are changing and adapting to life on the island. They are establishing what is right and what’s wrong and I think that could ultimately lead to some conflict. When I have had relationships with friends that have fallen apart the reason things didn’t work out was that we didn’t trust or respect each other. Overall I believe that the same thing will happen to some of the characters in this book. They will end up betraying each other in some fashion and they won’t be able to fix their relationships. This will ultimately lead to a downfall in the relationships between the characters.

Allison M 2012 said...

E.M. Forster wrote the introduction in my book. He believes that Ralph represents democracy and Jack represents dictatorship. I personally agree with his insight. The world that has been created before us and that the world that we all live in now has had to fight the constant battle of dictatorship vs. democracy. This battle has been repeatedly occurring throughout history. It is human and animal instinct to “get” more than what you already have. People and animals are alike in that way. A crave of us humans is to have more power. Once a person gets a small taste of what it like, then it is as if they are addicted and they will always want more and more. You can see that when in Lord of the Flies Jack always wants more power. He was leader of choir and now then he wanted to be leader of the whole island. It is shown that Jack represents dictatorship when he appoints himself as leader or chief; Ralph does not appoint himself but is voted upon to by all the other boys to be their leader

kelseyc2012 said...

I really like Piggy. He seems to genuenly care about everyone on the island and though he may be nervous and scared he tends to be a voice of reason. He is the one that thought of the possibility of a lifetime of of solitude on the island and he thought to use the conch to call a meeting. Ralph also contributed to that idea about the conch but I don't think he really cares about anyone else on the island. He also seems to be slightly illeterate. Like how he doesn't realise what Piggy's "ass-mar" is. He seems sort of like a bully. Like he will force his way upon people. He also seems very sure of himself. Jack seems very similar to Ralph. He doesn't appear to care about others so much as himself and would probably bully people into his way. I would consider myself a quiet caring leader like Piggy but unlike him I would probably speak up.

leahf2012 said...

Toward the beginning of the book, the relationship between the two leaders Jack and Ralph, and Piggy, seemed very distant. I felt that Jack and Ralph were displaying a little hostility toward Piggy because of his appearance and this thwarted Piggy’s good ideas. The building block of the relationships is respect. Without respect for someone’s appearance, their good ideas are not heard sincerely. I think that Piggy’s relationship with Ralph is interesting. Ralph is nicer to Piggy than the others, but is still not completely accepting of him. What is breaking the relationships apart, I think, is the fact that none of the boys are willing to listen to each other. They are headstrong and cannot display any empathy, which is crucial to a good relationship.
I think everyone has had a relationship that fell apart. The best example of one of my relationships that fell apart was because of a lack of respect for each other’s opinions.

I think Piggy stands for a quiet leader. He is Ralph’s co-idea generator. But, Piggy does not receive credit for the things he odes. Ralph represents the headstrong leader and Jack, at the beginning of the story was very weird. He reminded me of Malfoy from Harry Potter. He was the tyrannical person who uses his excuse that he can sing in “C-sharp” as an excuse to take over as a leader.

bens2012 said...

I believe Piggy is very smart and as Robet said vital the boys survival, these people are usually the least popular because no one really understands them and how they work. Meanwhile, obviosly both Jack and Ralph are competitive and naturally want the leader position. The boys all fight because they don't understand one another yet, and therefore think the other are wrong. I have had a couple situations in which I have lost close friends to me, one of which just happened when he left for heritage and I have not spoken to him yet. I personally can connect with some of the boys simply because I have been nominated for team captain of my baseball team, I had the responsiblity of carrying my team through tough teams and helping rejoyce in the good times.

Maxe2012 said...

The relationship between Ralph and jack is very fragile. They don't appear to like each other much and they both want to be in charge. While Ralph is the leader i do not think Jack wants him to be or will respect him in the way a leader should be respected.

The relationship between Ralph and Piggy is kind of strange. Piggy is really nice to Ralph and Piggy seems to want to like Ralph. However, Ralph pushes Piggy away a lot. For example, he tells everyone that they should call piggy piggy. Piggy told Ralph not to do that but he did anyway. I think Ralph, deep down, wants to like Piggy but something is stopping him from doing so.

The Ralph Simon relationship is interesting because Ralph seemed to like Simon from the start even though Simon didn't try to be liked. However, i think Simon likes Ralph as well.

All these relationships are built on the fact that they are stuck on an island together. They can be torn apart by the giving or taking of responsibilities.

I have had a relationship with a friend fall apart. It was in first grade. There was this kid that I was friends with but he wanted to be better than everyone academically. There were two kids that were better than him in math. One was me and one was my friend Daniel. The kid who wanted to be better than everyone decided that he wasn't going to like people that did better than him so he pretty much tried to stay away from me or hurt me so that relationship was ruined.

I don't really relate to any of the characters very well other than I kinda like to be a leader so that relates me to Ralph and Jack.

katieh2012 said...

Although the symbolism in LOF isn’t as strong as say, Orwell’s Animal Farm, it is definitely there. I think that every relationship on the island represents something in particular, and they have all progressed immensely over time.
As the question states, each relationship has building blocks that were the basis of its creation. I think that in this case, each and every relationship (except maybe that of the choir boys and Jack) was formed out of necessity. Each relationship was formed early on in the story for the sake of survival on the island. However, many of the relationships have progressed into friendships or even rivalries over time. Such examples can be found between Ralph and almost any other boy on the island. Ralph has even formed a relationship with Jack that has now been through the stage of friendship and has progressed into a rivalry. At first, Ralph was not concerned with Jack’s need for power or even aware of it. The two willingly worked together until the island started to make its mark on each boy. The island matured Ralph into a responsible leader, whereas it transformed Jack into a “blood-thirsty”, savage hunter. Because the island forced the two boys to take such drastically different paths, the two don’t agree anymore, and Jack has become a threat to Ralph’s position as chief.
Another important relationship is that of Ralph and Piggy. Piggy is almost completely dependent on Ralph for companionship and acceptance, and at times Ralph is unwilling to give him this. Piggy looks for these things from Ralph almost like he would look to a parent or his “auntie”. But recently, Piggy has become more independent and willing to stand up for himself. This may because Ralph has become more occupied with actually leading and avoiding confrontation with Jack, and therefore has less time to devote to Piggy. Ralph has also been less tolerant of Piggy in the last few chapters. As a result, Piggy is learning to make himself heard. Sadly, Piggy still receives no credit for being the “brains of the operation”.
Another important relationship I have noticed is more general than the others- the relationship between the biguns and littleuns. The two biguns in particular are Jack and Piggy. Jack is harsh and unsympathetic to the littluns need for a paternal or maternal figure in their life. He doesn’t acknowledge that fact that littleuns are DIFFERENT form him, and therefore in need of different things. Piggy on the other hand does acknowledge this fact and is gentler with them. (It is kind of sad though that no one ever tried to look for the little boy that went missing early on…)

treyjb2012 said...

The boy Jack has a sort of commanding relationship with the former choir members. They follow him and fell a mixture of dislike and the emotion were you want to be like someone else. Many of the boys have good relationships like Piggy and Ralph. They are good friend and most of the time support each other. The little boy Percival has an interesting relationship with the other boys at first. They play with him but they don't like him as a friend. The stress and strain of trying to survive alone on the island and the realization that they may parish is tearing some of these relationships apart, mostly in the older kids. At first Jack and Ralph had a good solid relationship and respected each other. Now because of all the stress of trying to survive and because of the boat incident, they bicker every scene practically. Even the little kids are on edge and are bullying Percival. Ok I have to eat dinner so I'll finish my post after dinner. Look for the other one. =]

KyleL2012 said...

well, to start, Ralph has pretty much been the good leader of the island, and has been respected and gives respect to the others. But Jack, as strong hearted and willed as he is, still competes for the title of leader. he starts out as a choir leader, unable to kill a pig, but he is slowly becoming more savage. so the relationship between Jack and Ralph is somewhat really lenient, but not hard to make back up. Piggy is like the Anti-Jack, he is wise, patient, but does not stand up for himself. he is vital to the island's survival, but he needs some self esteem. The relationship between Ralph and piggy is a strong one, as Ralph and piggy agree on things. but the Jack and Piggy relationship is a bad one as Jack just puts Piggy down and takes advantage of his low self esteem.

There was this one time where i was friends with someone, but it ended up crumbling. my friend was really attached to me, but i wasn't so much attached to him. I'm a very social person so i like to hang out with many groups as he wasn't so social and stood with one group. he got mad when i was hanging out with other people and decided that i wasn't his good friend. he sorta shunned me out of the group, but i had other groups to rely on so it wasn't much of a loss for me. though i still feel sorry for him.

i don't know if i can personally connect with the boys because i have never been stranded on an island. I might be able to connect with Piggy due to the fact that i was never aggressive in getting my own opinion in the group or wanting to become the leader. I'm not really meant to be a leader like Ralph or be headstrong like Jack though, but 1/3 isn't bad.

I think that Ralph symbolizes morality because he is still wanting to go back to the adult world and go back to normality, but the others are more of thinking about staying on the island. Jack symbolizes courage and savagery because he is becoming more.........wildish the longer he is on the island, and he seems to want Ralph's position. Piggy symbolizes wisdom and smartness because he always is patient and knows what to do, but he needs to stand up for himself.

bridgetL said...

Jack and Ralph was one of mutual respect. Jack respects that Ralph is a good, strong leader and Ralph respects Jack’s natural fierceness or strength. While both boys did their part in work on the island the respect remained. However, as time went on order fell apart on the island. Jack, being wild and fierce thrived on this while Ralph struggled to try to maintain such order. As both boys moved in separate directions, the respect dwindled. Ralph began to despise the wild side of Jack that he once respected and Jack began to similarly hate the orderly side of Ralph. The relationship between Ralph and Piggy is much more complicated. Piggy has mixed feelings about Ralph. He does seem to respect Ralph’s leadership but also feels that Ralph needs to listen to him more and take better care of the “lilluns”. Ralph understands the fact that Piggy is more intelligent than he is but also knows that Piggy will never be respected by the other boys because of his size. The longer they stayed on the island, the more Piggy began to resent Ralph and the more Ralph began to see that Piggy really was smart. Another important relationship is the one between the older boys and the younger boys. At the beginning, when they first crash on the island, the two groups all work together with the smaller boys looking up to the older ones. As time goes on the groups separate to the point where they communicate and interact only at assemblies. The older boys begin to look down on and get annoyed with the younger ones and the younger ones turn to each other for comfort. All these relationships break apart because the longer they stay on the island without adults the more wild and uncivilized the boys become. It is harder, if not impossible, to maintain a relationship of any type in an uncivilized environment. I have not really ever had a specific relationship that broke apart for a specific reason. I have certainly lost friends over the years due to the fact that we have changed and grown apart, but nothing sudden or violent. I did have a best friend in third and fourth grade and come fifth grade, we were in different classes and we both matured a little, becoming different people. We broke apart over time, not over a single instance, just like the relationships of the boys.

I think that Ralph symbolizes and stands for order and civilization. He does what he believes it is necessary so that the life on the island remains organized and that the tasks that need to continue to be rescued to indeed continue. Jack symbolizes the very opposite of Ralph. He stands for all that is barbaric and wild on the island. He is a wild hunter and prioritizes the hunting for wild pigs over keeping the fire going to be rescued. Piggy stands for the intelligence on the island. He thinks things through logically and gives his opinion.

NickM2012 said...

The characters in this story are now finally being reveled. Ralph is the born leader; he likes his position as chief and is probably the best fit for his job. As the story progresses, he finds out more about himself, and as many other people have said, finds his inner adult. I think he is now realizing the severity of their situation and is becoming more and more desperate. Jack is the bully, a big mean jerk. Like most bullies, they only bully because they are weak. He is trying to make up for his weakness by making others feel just as weak. He is also sounding more like a carnivore, with the pig scene, so this might be a big part in the story still to come. Piggy is the educated one, kind of the island scholar. He is definitely the most vulnerable one as well, seeing as he has the most self conscience and is not forceful. I feel he will have a large part in the story coming up. We haven’t heard much about Simon, or any of the other characters, but some will most likely become more prominent soon. Ralph and Jack have a weak love-hate sort of relationship; it is easily broken, and easily repaired. Ralph and Piggy have a strong relationship, partly because Ralph feels and obligation to protect Piggy, as he is the way off the island because of his glasses. Piggy doesn’t know yet but Ralph only likes him for this reason. Jack and Piggy despise each other; this is most definitely the weakest relationship, partly because they are a lot alike. Piggy doesn’t get heard much, and has no control, and neither does Jack, and like princes, they are next in line for the throne.
I have had a relationship that quickly fell apart. My neighbor was my best friend, we went to the same school and were in the same class every year. Then one year we were no longer in the same class and he moved away. This was not the only reason we were no longer friends, I also began making new friends in my class and started to distrust him.

treyjb2012 said...

Hey I'm back. Piggy and Jack never really had a good constructive relationship but the sting of what you could call failed success turned their relationship sour. Jack starts taking some of his frustration out on Piggy. He is angry because he though he was going well as a hunter but he was very unlucky and the one time he left the fire, a ship came by. This isn't Piggy's fault but Jack needs some one to take his frustration out on so he uses Piggy. The main building blocks of relationships in this story were not solid from the very beginning. They were build upon common interests and upon the love of exploration 9in Ralph and Jacks case). Many were build simply because there was nothing better to do; playing with someone is always better than playing by your self. These were not sturdy from the begging so all it took was one misinterpretation or one person letting down another to corrode them further. I've actual never really had a relationship fall apart. The only time I've really had that in my life hardly counts. One of my friend Jay moved to Africa for a while and he is back now but we have sort of lost touch. Obviously it fell apart because of the distance between here an Africa. Therefor I really can't relate to what is happening on the island. I've never had any feelings like that I rule a kingdom were none else is or anything like that. The only thing I can really relate to is the decay of civility. At Powell we did a Link Crew sort of thing and it was impossible to keep people in line.

Piggy I think stands for reason. He is sort of that solid character who is always rational. Ralph stands for order and peace. I'm not quite sure what Jack might stand for but maybe he could stand for chaos or rebellion.

jays2012 said...

Some of the relationships in the book between characters are that Jack respects Ralph but Ralph doesn't see what Jack is planning on doing with his ideas. They have great ideas that are never done. For Piggy and Ralph i have seen them as respecting one another throughout the book. They were the first to meet up with eachother in the beginning. They have been tight friends since. What is breaking the relationships apart is that Jack feels that it is more important to survive on the island than to be rescued. One time Jack brings all his men with him to catch one pig. In that time their fire goes out while a boat is nearby. This frustrates Ralph because he works the hardest out of everyone to keep it controlled. The reason the group is splitting in two is because Jack wants the best for himself and Ralph wants to get off the island. They are split and now the rules are getting out of hand.

Piggy stands for the brains of the group. He knows what to do but is too shy to lead. On the other hand, Ralph is like our leader. He is the big man. He tells everyone what to do. Jack is like our general. He plans how the "hunter's" are going to hunt. The littluns represent the people in the world not knowing what is going to happen. They are the people who don't really know what is going on.

Laurao said...

The relationships between the characters in this book are some of the strangest that I have seen. Piggy and Ralph have a love-hate relationship. Sometimes, Ralph needs Piggy for something, but other than that, Ralph ignores Piggy almost completely. I believe that Ralph does not think that he can be the chief anymore, and thinks about giving up the title. The building block of this relationship to me is the differences in all of the boys. Although they do not get along now, at the beginning of the book, the boys fed off of each other, (figuratively of course) there was a sense of competition between the boys that helped to build up the island. But now, this competition is breaking these boys apart, each group wants to be the best, and forgets that they are trying to get off of the island. I have had only one friendship that has fallen apart, and technically it really didn’t fall apart. We just went our separate ways, we still see each other a lot and we still talk, we just don’t have anything in common anymore. I cannot personally connect to this story because I haven’t been stranded on an island, but I have tried to lead people who don’t want to listen or be led. It is hard, but I did manage to lead these people, and they are now my best friends. I didn’t annotate on some of the boys so I will do that tomorrow and see what I can find.

TaylorG2012 said...

Thus far, I personally am still kind of trying to figure things out. I understand the plot and theme pretty well and I have a few hunches I guess you could call them but I still have to piece it all together a little more. Some of the relationships I have interpreted are that since the plane crash the leader is definitely Ralph. Ralph is a natural born leader although he is a little stubborn like everyone else had said. And Piggy is the intelligent cautious boy who seems almost self-conscious and weak. Jack is crueler than some of the others I’ve noticed, like to Piggy. And although Ralph teases Piggy he is more like a friend to him, so far. And as the story progresses I think the personalities of the survivors will be uncovered more as they spend more time on the island. But I was also going to say that I totally one hundred percent agree with Leah in her opinion of Ralph and Jack’s relationship being similar to Malfoy and Harry’s relationship in J.K. Rowling’s series. That was exactly what I was thinking while reading it.

And I don’t know if this is right at all whatsoever, but I’m thinking that on the island Piggy may symbolize the brain of the boys and Ralph may symbolize the courage and bravery of them. But I don’t know really yet.

carolynf2012 said...

Ralph and Piggy have an odd relationship. Piggy is the smartest boy and he generally gives Ralph good advice and . They kind of have an odd friendship. It seems as though Ralph will not openly admit his friendship with Piggy because Piggy is the large outcast boy with whom nobody wants to be friends with. If Piggy and Ralph were alone on the island I know they would have a stronger more open friendship. Jack and Ralph also have a generally good relationship. Jack and Ralph for the most part have respected each other and keep their friendship public. They aren't really declaring it but they aren't going to deny it either.

There was this one girl that I was friends with in 4th and 5th grade who's friendship I have lost. The friendship fell apart because as we both matured we matured in our separate ways. I began to think certain things were more important than things she thought were important.Certain friends of mine didn't approve of her and I began to be influenced by what they thought. I guess I can kinda connect with the boys on the island, as they each begin to think that certain things are more important than others they begin to split apart. Certain people are also beginning to effect their ways of thinking.

I think that Ralph stands for leadership, Piggy stands for intelligence, Jack stands for courage and common sense, and that the young boys stand for naiveness. I think that each of these things may be themes of the book.

kaelib2012 said...

A lot of the relationships in the group have never really been stable, but they are slowly but surely falling apart. One example is Ralph and Jack. They both want to be the leader of the group, but since the group voted for Ralph, Jack has to go along with it, which greatly upsets him, even though he has never outright admited it. The thing that is breaking this relationship apart is the struggle for leadership and their conflicting priorities. Ralph wants to keep the fire going because now that he knows that ships do come this way, he realizes they could get saved and he wants them to be saved. Jack wants to basically have fun. He wants to hunt, hang out, explore, and really just enjoy their time on the island. Those ideas are so different that the two of them are bound for an outright brawl to decide who is the leader once and for all. One time that one of my friendships fell apart was a couple of years ago, a girl and I were best friends. We would do everything together, and we really just got along well most of the time. Soon, she just stopped talking to me. I have no idea why. I tried to talk to her, figure out exactly what was going on. She never really explained anything to me, but I know that the friendship is just over. I soon realized that she did this with all of her friends. She had a history of just dropping friends like hot rocks after a little bit, so I really am just glad I found that out and moved on. I can totally connect to what is going on at the island. Everyone wants something different and they really don't know what to do to fix it. They are basically split into groups, one group wants to have fun, the other group might be more serious and is focused on getting rescued. It's like when you're in a group at school doing a project and one half is just messing around, but another group is doing everything so that the group can get an A and after a while you just get very frustrated with the other half and give up, doing it all for yourself. I think Ralph stands for the sort of fake leader, he acts like a leader but he doesn't really have what it takes on the inside to be the leader that the island needs. Piggy represents the voice of reason. Even if no one will listen to him, he always has the practical way to deal with things and usually that way turns out best, even though no one would dare admit it. Jack stands for the animal. He is becoming more and more like an animal every day. He would rather hunt and get all bloody than actually do some real work for a change.

alexandriab2012 said...

For the characters: Ralph is the leader that everyone listens to and follows after. What Ralph say is the law (figuratively, is the only kind of law they have on the island). His second in command is Simon that is because he is the head of the choir boys, what Ralph says is enforced by Simon. Since both of these boys are “biguns” they are respected and looked up to. Piggy however is thought of as “fat, ass-mar, and specs, and a certain disinclination for manual labor.” Piggy never stands up for himself (when the other boys are being mean), is not brave, and is afraid to voice his thoughts (and when he does, his thought are shot down).
The relationship between Ralph and Piggy was first set up because the both landed in the same spot; however this relationship is breaking apart because Ralph is no longer listening to, ignoring, and telling Piggy to shut up. My best friend from elementary school moved to Grand Junction when we were both in the third grade. We emailed, sent letters to each other and talked on the phone. I however was the one who kept us in touch and together, after a year of me constantly sending letters to her with out responses I finally gave up and sent her one last letter saying goodbye. After all this time, I still haven’t heard from her and she probably has forgot me but I haven’t forgotten her. And when I look back I realize that all the signs of forgetting me were there, but I however, was too blind to see it. I have to admit I’m still hoping for the possibility of meeting her again, but that probably will never happen.
Ralph to me seems like the Alpha and Simon as the Beta. None of the character really are anything like me except maybe Ralph because like Ralph I usually take control of the leader.

Bayley said...

okay so in the beginning of the book Jack and Ralph kinda teamed up to start everything off. Then their "society" fell apart. And when they missed the ship Ralph started to realise that they needed to do something. Thats when he really took charge. I agree with everyone when they say Piggy is the smart one. Ralph seems to realise this more as the book goes on. More so when Jack starts acting like a complete and total jerk. Thats when the power struggle starts between Jack and Ralph. Ralph is working towards getting them off the island and Jack just wants to be the AMAZING HUNTER

Jack is a born leader, Piggy is shy but very smart. And Jack is a jerk. And ya I have had a friendship fall apart. It was one i really cared about, and it hurts. Like it still hurts.

Ralph stands for courage and strength and everything you need to keep you trying.

Piggy is intelligence the helpful person behind the scene's that helps more than everyone realises.

Jack is thoughtlessness and pigheadedness. All the bad things.

alisonr2012 said...

I agree with everyone that Piggy is the smart one. He always has good ideas and Ralph starts to realize this when Jack starts acting like a jerk. Before then Jack and Ralph were always together. They would fight but then they would make up. The “friendship” could not last though because all Jack wanted was to be the amazing hunter while Ralph wanted to get everyone off the island. Ralph is a born leader, Piggy is more like a “parent”, and Jack is a jerk.
I had a relationship with a friend fall apart. It fell apart because we both had different personalities and we both wanted different things. She was outgoing and I was shy. She wanted to be popular and I just wanted someplace to fit in. If I had to compare us to characters in the book I would compare her to Jack and I would compare myself to Piggy. I would compare her to Jack because she always did whatever she wanted to. I would compare myself to Piggy because even though he is quiet when he is angry he stands up for himself. I would also compare us to Jack and Ralph because we were always getting into fights and then fixing it.
Piggy symbolizes intelligence. Ralph symbolizes bravery. Jack symbolizes selfishness.

kinseym2012 said...

One of the relationships I’ve noticed so far in my reading in the book are between the “littleuns” and the “biguns” The “littleuns” are acting like how I would view the entire group to be back home, care free, just wandering around having fun and not worrying about responsibilities. The “biguns” have stepped up and have started acting like adults and are the islands authority figures. Also, Ralph and Jack have an interesting relationship. Jack is so jealous that Ralph is chief and he is not that he has to be rebellious entirely. Like when he let the fire go out, he was doing it to make Ralph mad. This also is a bone of contention between the two of them. They are always arguing about the huts and the fire and needing meet. They usually scream at each other until they are “red in the face” arguing in circles. Another relationship is between Ralph and Piggy. I get the feeling that Ralph is just keeping Piggy close because he feels like he should since Piggy was the first one to be with him on the island. He never really acts interested in what Piggy has to say.

A few times in my life I’ve had friendships fall apart. The most recent one fell apart because of a fight she and I got into. It was a stupid fight that turned into something huge and nasty. We were so mean to each other for a few months and then we just stopped talking. It fell apart over a fight. Although I cannot relate 100% to the boys on the island, I know what they are going through friendship wise. Ralph and Jack are like my friend and I only tamer.

I think that Ralph is the symbol of leadership on the island. Jack is the rebel. He hates doing what anyone else says. Piggy is the clown. No one takes him seriously. And Simon is the hard worker. He’s always around doing everything.

sammiet2012 said...

In this book we have been able to gather a lot of information about the characters. Ralph is no longer a boy but is making that tradition toward “manhood” and is the most responsible person around and he is all about keeping the fire going and work first play later. Then Jack is all about being Mr. Tough Guy and hunting. With him it is always hunting this hunting that. Piggy on the other hand is really mostly only outspoken at meetings and also gets bullied a lot about his size. Simon on the other hand is quite and responsible.

The relationships of a few people have been very simple to see. The easiest to point out is the triangle relationship between Jack, Ralph, and Piggy. Jack is the hunter and for him it is all about hunting, finding meat and whenever he gets mad because he usually conducts respect toward Ralph, he uses Piggy as a scapegoat and attacks him verbally and physically. When this happens Piggy will most of the time he will go running to Ralph for help and some of the time Ralph will help him out and stand up to Jack. Then Jack will fight back and take it out on Piggy and the story goes on and on and on and on.

The only reason that some of my friendships fall a part is when one of us moves and we can no longer stay in touch as well. With this being the only reason that I really lose friends I would have to say that I can’t really relate to what is happening to the boys on the island.

BernardoT2012 said...

I just skimmed over the other posts, but I get the feeling that the main topic of conversation is character relationships. In the book right now, Jack's head grows a couple sizes. Metaphorically speaking. After a long time, the Raplh sees a boat on the horizon. Then, the fire goes out, The climb up the mountain, etc. etc. We all know the story here. Jack is convinced that going to get meat is the most important thing for the boys. Jack is the main reason the boys are still on the isalnd, and no one is happy.

The reason I went over that was to make sure everyone knew what I was about to talk about. Jack and many of the boys are losing sight of their priorities. They trade rescue for the short term comfort of meat. They are forgetting what's important.

So after the whole fire episode, Ralph and Jack are kind of on edge. When Ralph starts thinking about what just happened, he realizes that no one is really trying to control themselves. If no one does what needs to be done, and only what they want, they're going to be stuck on the island forever. He realizes that piggy, fat as he may be, can think and can rationalize what needs to be done. He can think, which is what they need.

When they are having their first real meeting, someone brings up the topic of the monster. At first everyone denies it's existence and blames Simon's night-time trips for scaring the littleuns. As of now I declare 'littleuns' a word. Then Simon says he believes in the monster. When Simon says this, everyone calls him names, and says to shut him up. They also say to take the conch away. As far as I see it, the conch represents the right to speak. So when Simon says something that makes everyone's happy little world seem fake, they want to take away his right to speak. This happens in real life too, if you look for it.

Simon has public speaking issues, but he says something interesting. While trying to convey what he thinks is the monster, he asks the group, "What's the dirtiest thing there is?" What was he going to say? Would what he said cut off the matter of the beast once and for all?

I think he was going to say that the dirtiest thing there is, is treachery. Maybe at night, some people are moving around, doing there own thing or trying to set something up. Remember, Simon sleeps separatly from the other boys, so he would see anything going on in the near-by forest. What if Jack, to become chief, was pretending to be a monster. Then he could eventually blame the fear caused by the monster on Rlph's cowardice. Then he 'kills' the beast and becomes the heroic hunter. Jack was pretty bossy in the beginning of the book, and might have been smart enough to plan something like this.

kailynw2012 said...

I have noticed that there seems to be a conscious, that Piggy is smart and caring. I would have to disagree. He definitely has glasses (a presumption of wisdom perhaps) but so far the only thinking I have been aware of him doing is to to make a sundial clock, which seems to me, that it would be no use. You need time when there is something to do/go, not on a stranded island. It seems to me that all he does is complain or say an "I told you so" after the fact. The only person I have seen him caring for is himself and his asthma. For me he is my least favorite character by far, because of his dependence and smugness. I would like to see where everyone is coming from though, could you give me examples? Maybe it will end up being that I am Piggy's number one fan!

carolineb2012 said...

There are many relationships of dependency on the island. Ralph depends on the other people on the island to have someone to control. Piggy depends on Ralph to have a leader to follow. Jack wants to feel he can depend on himself but he really thrives on the idea that he could do a better job leading. Ralph sometimes depends on Piggy to come up with intelligent ideas. He knows that he is the smartest of the group and he can use that to his advantage. Jack can come off as a jerk, but in the end, he really just wants to be in control, and knowing that he is not upsets him. Piggy, again is slightly insecure, but overall intelligent and definitely should be in the position of a leader, but Ralph takes the place of lead because he feels he deserves it. As the book goes on we see more of each character. Piggy is whiny. Jack is turning more savage. Ralph is maturing at a fast pace. They all depend on each other for something, but what may change in the coming parts.

johnc2012 said...

There are a ton of characters, and that means there are a ton of relationships! Well in chapters 1-5, a major relationship is the power balance between the boys. Ralph is on top, but he is followed closely by Jack, who has always resented ralph's leardership. After Jack comes all of the other biguns, then Piggy, and then finally the littleuns. I think the bulding blocks of these relationships are how they are all stuck on an island together, pushing them into close contact, and then another is how they have become estranged from the adult world so are forced to look to those such as Jack and Ralph as figures of "authority." I think the major reason it is falling apart (and why everything is falling apart) is becasue there is no adult voice of reason, fear has crept its way into all the cornes of the boy's imagination, bringing fear into anything they do, especially their relationships.
An instance where I've had a friendship fall apart is when I switched schools in 8th grade. It fell apart because of the distance and, because at I made new friends at my new school. HE thought that with me having new friends, that he did not want to put the effort into sustaining our friendship. So, we moved our own ways. Although this is not excatly like it occured in the book, the breaking of realtaionships does remain the same. And finally, I don't know for sure about all of the boys, but, I think piggy stands for the intelligence and wisdom that is lost after the boys crash on the island

SydneyR2012 said...

In chapter four, a very momentous part of the story was when Piggy’s glasses broke. I think that they symbolize something, like hope maybe, and now that the society is falling apart and the fire was let out, their hope is broken, like the glasses. I don’t know I may be wrong! But also notice that the broken glasses are on the front cover (depending on what copy you have)
I have also realized that it is all young boys on the island. This might give some clues as to where they came from. If maybe they were sent to the island to be protected from this atom bomb we are hearing about, then why were only boys saved?
Also, I think that Ralph is beginning to realize Piggy’s importance in the society. On page78 it says, “Only, decided Ralph as he faced the chief’s seat, I can’t think. Not like Piggy.” This shows that Ralph is finally recognizing Piggy’s importance on the island. It is getting harder for Ralph to control the boys, turning the story to a Man Vs. Society conflict.