Monday, October 20, 2008

Fahrenheit 451 Fishbowl 1-40 Period 2

247 comments:

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Maxe2012 said...

Why do you think that most people ignore Clarisse? Why didn't Montag?

hannahg2012 said...

Why does Guy steal the book from the old lady's house? I thought he was against the whole book thing?

carolynf2012 said...

Do you see any connections between Pedestrian and Fahrenheit 451?

chelseac2012 said...

I think people may ignore Clariss because she thinks outside the box more than thier society really wants. Montag might have just listened to her the first night not to be rude but enjoyed talking with her later.

AustinW2012 said...

Max-
Most people ignore her because she likes to actually think through life. Most people in the story just want instant gratification. That is what created the fireman's job was people didn't want books to make people think because it brings up unhappy topics.

ericak2012 said...

Max- I think a lot of people ignore Clarisse because most people here seem to reject the different.

Maxe2012 said...

hannah- I think he stole it because Clarisse made im curious and he wanted to know what was in the book. Clarisse made him think about the whole book rule.

hannahg2012 said...

Max- I think most people ignore Clarisse because she actually thinks. She questions the system and I think Guy finds that interesting about her.

leslieh2012 said...

like in macbeth, montag blames his hands... interesting...

Brianc2012 said...

Max- I think people ignore Clarisse because she is "different" then most poeple in that society so they try to steer clear from her.

jays2012 said...

hannah- Montag takes the book because of Clarisse. After talking to her, he starts thinking about these books. He thinks the books may have something important. He didn't know there was anything more but now he understands that these books can have meaning.

mariep2012 said...

I think that Montag is really maybe going through a form of a midlife crisis. He realizes that there has got to be more to this life and he is missing it. He is just worried that he is running thriugh life too fast and he hasn't stopped to think about it until now.

robertc2012 said...

The "ruled paper" quote is saying to think outside of the box. Don't just follow the rules. Be creative and be unique. That's what the message of this quote is.

carolynf2012 said...

Hannah,
I think that Guy steals the book because Clarisse has kind of challenged him to challenge the system. Clarisse totally changed everything for him. Like Bayley said in the inner circle, Clarisse made him think.

katieh2012 said...

Max- I think that people aviod her because she breaks the rules. She goes against what everyone else does and that may scare others around her. Montag, however, is not like everyone else, but it just takes contact with Clarisse to make him realize it.

loganc2012 said...

The last question that Clarisse asks on the first day they meet is: "Are you happy?"

What is happiness exactly? Is Guy Montag happy?

hannahg2012 said...

Leslie- I saw that connection too! I wonder what is similar between Macbeth and Guy?

Maxe2012 said...

So life for these people is kinda a routine? And people are just empty shells who can't think for themselves?

ashleys2012 said...

I think people are ignoring Clarisee because she is challenging the system. She is thinking differently than everyone else and she is her own person. People in their society have been modled the same and they are not doing anything to break that mold. Clarisse scares them, she is different and therefore she is ignored.

ashleys2012 said...

Montag connected with Clarisse. Montag was unhappy before but was in denial about being unhappy. Clarisse made him realize that he was unhappy and he connected with her. There is something different and unique about Montag...

jays2012 said...

leslie- very true i think we can connect these two stories with the hand and the blame they give it.

leslieh2012 said...

jay- he already has stored up a library of stolen books in the vent before he talks to clarisse.

PeterH2012 said...

Hannah- Clarisse has definitely effected how Montag thinks. Like what bernardo said, "she said three words and it drove him crazy" He is so curious to find out more about her, and how she thinks. The Appearance Versus Reality idea pops up again to open up lots of connections to Macbeth and Lof.

carolynf2012 said...

Chelsea,
I agree. I think that Guy was entertained by talking to her.

Brianc2012 said...

Marie- i agree with you because it does seem that Montag is going through some kind of crisis in his mind.

nickb2012 said...

Hannah- i think he took from the old lady's house because he was curious. After speaking to clarisse, it made him think about what he is doing

sammiet2012 said...

Max- I would have to say that most people ignore Clarisse because she isn't normal. In this society she is an outcast because she doesn't watch TV she sits down and talks with her family instead. She thinks and questions what is going on in her life instead of just watching it pass her by.

austin d 2012 said...

What has been clairesse's overall affect on Montag?

AustinW2012 said...

max-
yes I think life for them is routine. They don't care as long as nothing requires thought they just want to be as happy as possible with as little effort as possible.

connorm said...

Guy could be a person who could possibly be changed from his normal lifestyle by someone that does challenge the norm of the time period. Clarisse would be ignored because she is an anomaly in the world they live in and that it classifies yourself with a freak or outlandish person.

PeterH2012 said...

Carolyn- I think that Montag is going to end up like the pedestrian. He is starting to see what is around him.

mariep2012 said...

Maxe - I think that life is a routine and we need to be doing something with our lives or we will go crazy. I think that we have a purpose on this earth for something, and when we don't do anything, we are going against the way we are created.

carolynf2012 said...

Logan,
I do not think that Guy is happy. When Clarisse comes into the picture Guy is challenged to think and think more about the world around him, like Erica said in the inner circle.

katieh2012 said...

So going off what the inner circle is saying, where in life do we just function? and how does this affect us?

For me personally I hear it all the time at soccer, that we're just "going through the motions". The coach makes a big deal out of this because when you just go through the motions, you aren't learining anyhting new. By doing so, you don't further yourself.

alexandriab2012 said...

Max- I think that people ignore her because she's different than what people are used too. She has different ideas and thoughts on the way humans live their lives.
I think that Montag listened because he wanted someone to talk to and he's a good listener.

robertc2012 said...

I think that people ignore Clarisse not because she thinks, but because she is different. It's like "The Pedestrian": if you do something different, no matter how normal you think it is, people will consider you strange.

connorm said...

Erica

I'm not sure i understand your comment about ignorance of Clarisse could you explain more??

jays2012 said...

Hannah- This is exactly what the government and the people who created this censorship didn't want. When people start thinking and trying to take the books, they go into a mess. Things get out of hand.

Maxe2012 said...

This book seems a lot like the Giver. Because in the GIver the people don't know very much but there are some people who want to no more and who know there is more.

Brianc2012 said...

austin d- I think Clarisse changed the way Montag thinks about the way the world works, and hes learned to not believe everything poeple have told him.

mariep2012 said...

The inner circle is talking about the name of the chapter. What does it mean to you guys?

carolynf2012 said...

In general do you guys think that plenty of times in your life you don't know what you have until it is missing? Just like Guy not realizing how much he enjoyed talking to Clarisse until one night he didn't.

AustinW2012 said...

I think Clarisse is kind of like the pedestrian. Both have societies living around them that just do things quickly and want to be happy with no effort and have a daily routine. They both kind of defy the system and take time to look at life and see what is going on around them. This makes society reject them.

sammiet2012 said...

Does anyone have any predictions of what is behind the ventilator?

ashleys2012 said...

When the announcement went on the radio that war had been declared, everyone listening had no visible reaction. They continued on with their normal routine. War is a very emotional activity and they didn't respond. What does this say about their society?

AllisonM2012 said...

Carolyn- In the Pedestrian and 451 both are set in a futuristic feel. Both authors attempted to predict the changes that will occur in society. The predictions that both authors made is people will become increasingly detached to one another. Does anyone think that these predictions are true today, or that they someday will be?

leslieh2012 said...

the salamander is on the sleve of his uniform and his lighter. Later in the book(i couldn't resist reading ahead) someone when speaking of the destruction of the firemen, he compares it to a salamander eating it's own tail.

hannahg2012 said...

Who is the 'leader' of this whole community? Who runs the government?

alexandriab2012 said...

Max - Do you think it was worth it to take the book form the old women?

carolynf2012 said...

Peter,
I see what you mean. I think that Guy is in fact becoming the Pedestrian.. He is noticing that technology and similarity and equality is taking over.

jays2012 said...

leslie- but when he met Clarisse, he kept remembering that thought of the books in the grille. He only read one line in that. That was "Once upon a time..." Clarisse made him want to look in the books.

chelseac2012 said...

Robert –
Her thinking makes her different. The people around her don’t think like she does which makes her different when she brings something different up, people wonder how she gets that information or why she thinks so much.

PeterH2012 said...

Max- Good Connection! The giver is all about making people the same.How does this theme show up in Farenheit 451?

nickb2012 said...

Max- i think most people ignore clarisse because shes somewhat challenging the system, or writing against the lines. They realize that if they listen to her, they could become revolutionary too, and they dont want to be accused.

Montag listened to clarisse, because he was interested in her

robertc2012 said...

The salamander is the emblem of the firemen. It is orange and on fire, representing how the firemen burn objects like books.
The salamanders don't actually live in the fire. They live in dark, moist areas and when a fire starts, they run away from it to escape the heat. It does look like they are "born" from the fire, though.

alexandriab2012 said...

Who do you think Guy's enemy is? Why do you think that that person is his enemy? Do you think that it is one of the other firemen?

Brianc2012 said...

ashley- I noticed that too. It is kind of like the Pedestrian where people are sitting in front of TV's all day and they don't understand what's going on with the world.

Maxe2012 said...

Marie- I think that the salamander represents what causes destruction and that is the lighter that lights the fires. The hearth is like a fireplace but in this book the fireplace is a house full of books.

connorm said...

Leslie i am in an agreement with jay that he never had a want to read the books until Clarisse came along.

loganc2012 said...

Austin D- Clarisse's overall effect on Montag was that of a catalyst. She sparked his thought process, she made him question the things he has been use to his entire life.

carolynf2012 said...

Allison,
I totally think that these predictions in these stories are becoming true and more or less will all become true.

Inner Circle,
Like Laura said, the fire isn't just burning books, it is burning knowledge, history and past discovery.

PeterH2012 said...

Carolyn- Thats a good idea. I think we will start to see more and more similarities between the two.

What about with Harrison Bergeron?

katieh2012 said...

Ashley- maybe they didn't react to the declaration of war becuae in their society, they are "hardened" to the idea of war. This may be because they have such great technology that war becomes less of a big deal, and maybe because of technology, less lives are at risk... What do you think?

ashleys2012 said...

There is a lot of animal imagry in this novel. On page 1 they refer to books as "the pigeon winged books died on the porch..." Why have they refered to the books as pigeons?

leslieh2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE- when the pheonix dies, it turns into ash. Then it is reborn out of that ash. How can this be compared to the fireman's organization more in depth? When the old type of firemen "died", the new firemen were "born" of the destruction of the other kind.

Maxe2012 said...

Alex- I think that Guy's enemy are all of the firemen. This is because he wants to think more now. He is thnking about what Clarisse said and he became curious. Now he seems to want to save books that firemen want to destroy.

nickb2012 said...

sammie, what could be behind the ventilator is a camera. THere could be a camera in every house, yet only the firefighters know about them. It could also be something that causes guilt, because he is drawn to it each time he walks past.

AustinW2012 said...

alexandriab2012-
guy's enemy is himself. He wants to break free and possibly think for himself and see what life is really about and what is going on around him. His eyes have been opened and he must choose to walk this new path or continue on his way of destroying that path. So in a sense two versions of himself are fighting to destroy the other and so he can head down one path.

carolynf2012 said...

Alex,
I think that Guy's enemy is society. Everyone has been melted into this mold that everyone is the same and should be. They don't want you to learn and think and all Guy wants to do is learn and think.

jays2012 said...

Connor- That is very true. He never really knew what the books were, he just thought of burning books as part of life. He didn't know what was in the books. He just did as he was told. When Clarisse came into the story, he started thinking. He thought maybe there is something in the books that he can learn from and there is more on the inside of them than what he noticed.

PeterH2012 said...

Inner Circle- With the idea of censorship in text book, do you think this will increase to the point of Farenheit? How far are we willing to go to make ourselves look good?

alexandriab2012 said...

" We shall tis day light such a candle, by Gods good grace, in England, as I trust shall never be put out," What does this mean and why do you think it's important?

leslieh2012 said...

as far as having two sides of a story, the cut that out because that makes people angry. thinking in general makes people angry. No matter what you do, someone will take offence at it. I have an unnatural talent for making people i've never seen before mad at me. No matter what i do, or don't do, someone gets mad. They are trying to eleminate anything that could be offensive to anyone. That is impossible.

ashleys2012 said...

Katie, I agree with you that maybe technology has shaped their society into having no fear. But what happens when there is no fear? There is carelessness and that is what their society has come to. Is Ray Bradbury foreshadowing what technology may lead to?

Maxe2012 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Maxe2012 said...

ashley- I think they referred to books as pigeons because pigeons are free creatures. No one can control pigeons and books are also a freedom. Books allow people to let their imagination free and you never know what it might do.

AllisonM2012 said...

In the center circle, they said that fire cleanses the soul or it destroys. They also said that it changes. It doesn’t just change the book but the past. I believe that when it destroys it therefore changes. Although the book may be destroyed it changed the person that could have potentially read it in the future. It therefore could be said that it cleanses the soul when that path was changed.

carolynf2012 said...

Peter,
I think that with H.B. since society is "getting rid of ideas" with the books. And when you get rid of ideas you get rid knowledge and uniqueness.

chelseac2012 said...

Alex-
Could that be from a book? Could the quote be a prophesy?

nickb2012 said...

Inner circle- i think bradbury was trying to predict that school would be become completely based on grades, and what u can do, instead of LEARNING and understanding what you know

leslieh2012 said...

ashley- pigeons are kindof fat and scarry. They have red eyes and sharp beaks. They personally scare me. I suppose, some people could say that they are cute though. People think like this about books.

carolynf2012 said...

The inner circle said that the idea of Guy being in love with Clarisse has been suggested. I don't think that Guy in necessarily in love with Clarisse, but with her ideas and the way she thinks. I think Guy is just thirsting for more. What do you guys think? Do you think that in society today you may not be in love with the person but with the idea of what they may bring? Maybe with the election?

alexandriab2012 said...

Honestly I don't think that it's possible to have a prefect Utopia. Does anyone else agree, because all these writers try to show different possiblities of Utopia, and they never work and the people rebel against it. So maybe government shouldn't be as controlling over the people they govern.

Brianc2012 said...

In the society of 451, are they trying to make a Utopia by burning books, therfore burning the past?

loganc2012 said...

HannahG- You present a very good question. I think your question has a lot to do with what the inner cirlce has been discussing. Whoever is in charge seems to require the burning of books, the burning of information. Like HB and the Pedestrian the society is opressive in Fahrenheit 451. It is a dystopian society.

sammiet2012 said...

Nick- If it is a camera behind the ventilator though what is the government doing with that camera? Are they searching for things out of the norm? Is that why Guy is troubled by the fact that Clarisse wasn't there to walk him home?

leslieh2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE- Over and over in the book they say that the meaning of life is to have fun. Nothing deeper- just to have fun. People die trying to have fun. That is all that they have to live for.

ashleys2012 said...

Do you all think Beatty is someone to watch out for? On page 40 Beatty recited a momirized quote FROM A BOOK. Has he been secretly challenging the system?

Brianc2012 said...

carolyn- I don't think Montag is in love with her, I think Montag is just facinated with Clarisse's ideas that give a whole new perspective of his life.

hannahg2012 said...

Carolyn- I agree with you. Guy isn't in love with Clarisse, I think he is in love with her thoughts and ideas. She thinks differently than others in the community and i think that fascinates him.

AllisonM2012 said...

Carolyn- I agree with what you said that it will happen. Technology has already divided us from our family. Although may communicate more with our friends, we are slowly decreasing the amount of contact we have with our family.

connorm said...

All stories have multiple sides and my banned book is called all quiet on the western front which was banned in Nazi Germany and is a connection to this book because the my banned book opposed the Nazis. With opposition comes revolt which brings revolution which brings change and makes the world different but when people do not have access to the information to overthrow a totalitarian government there is no reason to fear revolt and no room for change. The Nazi goal and Communist goal is to reach Utopia and that cannot be accomplished when there is change and there is a lot of knowledge of other ideas such as democracy, anarchy, monarchy, or any other form of government, so utopia is an unachievable feat unless all people had the same opinion on everything.

Laurao said...

leslie-
Come into the circle and explain this please!

carolynf2012 said...

Alex,
But what if the government loosens their control on the people they govern and eventually they loose all power? What happens then? Would it be better to have this unachievable "Utopia" or a uncontrolled society?

Maxe2012 said...

Alex- it is true that a utopian society is impossible to achieve because everyone has a different opinion. The government should help a little but to stop people from thinking is cruel and going to far.

chelseac2012 said...

Brian –
I think the government wants them to burn the books to burn the past. By burning the past, they’re burning any connection the people could have to what the world used to be; by burning the books and the past, they’re burning the bad in the past.

leslieh2012 said...

I think adding a lolita complex to this book would just push it over the edge. Also, the dandilion said that he wasn't in love with anyone. However, she was. Who? Could it be Montag?

alexandriab2012 said...

Ashley-
Do you think that this realionship between Montag and Clarisse is more than just a friendship?

bayleyk2012 said...

Peter- Thats a good point. Our country does go to extreme's to make us look good. In a history text book you will almost never hear what we did wrong.

leslieh2012 said...

I think Clarisse is white because white represents innocence. She has the big eyes to match. She is meant to be the picture of innocence.

Maxe2012 said...

The inner circle is talking about the Montag dressed in black and Clarrise in white. I think that Clarisse represents good while Montag, along with the other firemen, represents bad or evil.

robertc2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE- What do you think is hidden behind the ventilator? Several people said a camera, but why? Why does Guy only think about what is behind the vent and not unscrew it and find out? Would Clarrise investigate if Guy told her about his suspicions?

AustinW2012 said...

I think that utopias are possible but only on the circumstance that no more than one human in in it. As humans we all have different ideas and you can't possibly make even two humans possibly happy. With one it is possible. I think to make a utopia all you need to do is replace any human thought with robotics or something and you're set. The only problem is if you get rid of all human thought there is no point to a utopia. So yes utopias are possible, no they are not practical.

Brianc2012 said...

max- i think that a Utopia world is imposible because everyone has a different point of view for what happiness is.

ashleys2012 said...

I agree with Kyle in the inner circle. He said that society is represented by black, Clarisse is represented by white and Montag is gray because he hasn't decided yet. These 2 colors are extremem opposite, black and white aren't even close to eachother and this represents how Clarisse is at the complete opposite side of spectrum than the rest of the society.

PeterH2012 said...

Carolyn- Great idea! I think we are going to see more and more similarities between these two stories.

sammiet2012 said...

Leslie- You have a good point. If all people have to live for is fun then what if one person's view of fun is burning books and another person has fun reading then just like they did in the book things are going to conflict.

alexandriab2012 said...

Lesie-
I think that Clarisse does love Montag because why else would she care that much about what he thinks.
Montag always dreads seeing his wife, I don't think thatt everything is so amazing in "paridise."

johnc2012 said...

Carolyn-
You have to think about if this society is a Utopia- personally, I don't think that it is. So, if the government goes away, doesen't that mean the dystopia would go away and you could be left with a utopia?

leslieh2012 said...

Interestingly enough, i think knowledge is like fire. The thirst for it was spread to Montag when he toutched those who posessed it.

jays2012 said...

Max- I agree that Clarisse is the good side. She is the innocence. She makes people catch on to the good. Since everyone is already evil or bad, there is only one way to move that is moving to the innocent or white side.

loganc2012 said...

Alex- I do not believe that these authors are attempting to present utopias. I think they are trying to show that utopias are impossibilities. They are trying to say that the only way to even attempt such societies is oppresion. However they acknowledge the impossibility.

Maxe2012 said...

The government tries to make the country as close to a utopia as it can. So if people choose who they feel is the right people to do that, how come everyone is unhappy and we aren't even close to a utopia?

connorm said...

Brian i think that they are trying to achieve a utopia but burning books is not all they are trying to do to accomplish it and by burning books you could be burning the future and the past because the past would be forgotten but without knowing the past they couldn't figure out what to do for the future once they finished burning the books unless everything was coded onto the internet.

nickb2012 said...

i think the boks they burn make people unhappy. If the gov't is trying to achieve a utopia, then a book like macbeth could make people really sad. Also they could be burning these books to keep people away from thinking about challenging the system.

Brianc2012 said...

max- i agree with you that Clarisse, dressed in white, does represent the good in the world but also the innocence of her and the way she thinks.

ashleys2012 said...

Alexandria-
I don't think that Clarisse and Montag are more than just friends. Montag says that she is like his daughter and she asks her famous question, "why" and he had to think of his answer. She gets him thinking and that is whay he loves (in a fatherly way) about her.

chelseac2012 said...

Leslieh –
Good connection with knowledge and fire. I think it really fits.

jays2012 said...

alexandria- or is it just that Montag is the only one that listened to her?

carolynf2012 said...

Clarisse doesn't go to school. She also has these amazing real ideas and she really has the truth. She may not fit in but she is smart and has common sense. Do you agree?

bayleyk2012 said...

Nick- jump in and expand on that please.

PeterH2012 said...

Bayley- Exactly! Is the line between censorship and total control being blurred? How far is too far?

Inner Circle- How has this book foreshadowed what is starting to happen? How right is he?

All- Where is the line between censorship and total control? What are some new ways that we are challenging the system of censorship? How are people changing the world with their comments?

carolynf2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE,
Smith said that schools are becoming dangerous. School creates stereotypes. Things become violent but do you really think its because of the kids or because of the things taught in the schools?

alexandriab2012 said...

smith-
I don't think that it is the school that is dangerous, but the people who make it dangerous. Kind of like the gun comment you made earlier.

ashleys2012 said...

When Austin in the inner circle said that as iteams become more avaliable, more kids can use them to harm. But who is providing them with these materials? Is it really the kids fault or is it the fault of the provider?

hannahg2012 said...

Carolyn- Great comment! I agree that Clarisse is really smart and common sense. She actually thinks for herself and doesn't let the government control her.

Laurao said...

Outer Circle-

Come in and discuss!

AustinW2012 said...

I think that there is no good or bad. It's all perspective. To us terrorists are evil. In their minds they are helping the rest of the world against us which they see as a controlling menace. In the Matrix the free humans see the machines as evil but from the machines view they are creating a utopia for the humans to live in while helping the machines. So good and bad is all in perspective, what you think you are is different from the person next to you.

AllisonM2012 said...

Ashley- I think that Beatty probably will be someone to watch out for in the future only for the reason that it appears that he has been brain-washed by society. His mind doesn’t seem as open-able as Monag’s mind. I also thought it was ironic that they were reading from a rule book when they burn books but yet they have the books for rules. It might be that the information in that particular book was written by the government. The government therefore censors information to limit the amount of “ideas” society is allowed to know.

Maxe2012 said...

Carolyn- I agree but I think that since most people don't have common sense, that common sense, in a way, is revolutionary and possibly even considered by most people in this book as evil.

chelseac2012 said...

Carolyn –
I agree with you. I think Clarisse doesn’t fit in because of her “street smarts”. She thinks outside the box while the others are just going around being violent.

sammiet2012 said...

Ashley- I agree. It is like she is a young child and he is the fatherly figure that answers all of her innocent questions.

carolynf2012 said...

You have all brought up the idea of the government being controlling. But can you possibly imagine a world with no government? We've seen a world with too much government in HB, F451, and the Pedestrian. But what would a world with no government look like? People constantly complain about our government but, to me, it seems we've got it pretty good. What do you think?

nickb2012 said...

inner circle- stephanie said how we all make mistakes. We learn from these mistakes. so my question is- if they take away the able to make mistakes, are we taking away the ability to learn?

Brianc2012 said...

austinw- i totally agree with you. I think that is one of the reasons that Utopia's are hard to make because one side views the other as "evil" while they view themselves as heros or freedom fighters.

loganc2012 said...

Carolyn- That is a great point. I don't know that it is students. I would extent the school aspect. Is it not the "control" that is creating these so called "dangerous" children. The "control" can be school, or parents, as well as other students.

carolynf2012 said...

Max,
What makes you think that people don't have common sense?

leslieh2012 said...

Think about it- in the olden days, violence was more accepted. Kids could beat eachother up for fun. THey played cowboys and indians. With pretend guns and pretend blood. But you know what the differences is? nobody ever died.

sammiet2012 said...

Does anyone have a guess as to where Clarisse has gone?

alexandriab2012 said...

Jay- that is possible but why would you listen to someone (other than having no other person to talk to)who says that there crazy. As human we say that we would rebel against anything that is unjustic or cruel, but do we truely do tha, do we really stop these wrongs that are done -no we just stop and watch and say nothin and do nothing.

austin d 2012 said...

Ashley- The provider makes a profit, while the kid fires his gun? The provider is allowed to sell if he has his materials legally.

Maxe2012 said...

Carolyn- yes government helps but if it becomes too powerful or too weak society starts to crumble.

PeterH2012 said...

Chelsea- Great comment! Clarrise makes connections to everything, and that is how she teaches herself things. This is exactly what we are doing in this class! We are learning to be prepared for jobs that might not even exist yet!

jays2012 said...

Nick- I don't think that there is any way that we are able to learn without making mistakes. If we do a math problem, and we get it wrong, we learn from that. But if they take that away, we lose that learning ablility.

jays2012 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chelseac2012 said...

Inner circle –
It was brought up about violence within in families and the abuse that goes on. It won’t stop unless someone has enough strength to challenge what was happening.
The only way any of this is going to stop is if someone who has enough power and enough will to stop the bad things they’re seeing happen.

hannahg2012 said...

Carolyn- I think a world with no government would be in complete chaos. The government keeps the order in society. However too much government can be harmful as well. So we need government, it just needs to be balanced.

AustinW2012 said...

The argument in the inner circle was it was the provider's fault for a child using a weapon to kill someone. I disagree it takes the child to pull the trigger.

Maxe2012 said...

Sammie- I think that Clarisse either got arrested or was ordered to go to school. I don't know if school is mandatory in this society but if it is then that is probably the answer.

carolynf2012 said...

Max,
I do agree with the fact that too much or too little government will cause the society to crumble. BUT my point is, do you think that people today are too whiny today? Or do you think our government is too controlling or not controlling enough?

leslieh2012 said...

LAURA OF THE INNER CIRCLE-
you don't want to offend anybody? Please, offend away. This book could be offensive- anything could be offensive. If anything is worth saying, it will probably offend someone. That is what this whold book is about. They burn books because they offend people. So please- offend me.

Brianc2012 said...

carolyn- I think that a world without any government would fall apart after a while because you need some control over laws and boundries.

connorm said...

Im not sure i agree with you bayley what more is there in life than to have fun.

mariep2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE - What is the purpose of life for us then?

Maxe2012 said...

Carolyn- Well our government is being too controlling it isn't doing what the people want it to do. Since the government isn't supportng the people, the people are getting angry.

AustinW2012 said...

Connor I agree.
"life liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
All three have to do with means to happiness.

carolynf2012 said...

Challenging the system.
This has constantly been brought up. How do you think Clarisse has challenged the circle? How WILL Guy challenge the system later in the book?

nickb2012 said...

inner circle-stephanie explained how the gov't has sort of taken away the ability to make mistakes. As teenagers, we make mistakes, and we learn form them.

All- My question is- If the gov't has taken away the ability to make mistakes and learn from them, has the gov't taken away the ability to learn completely?

bayleyk2012 said...

Peter- In the book the censorship is way out of control! Not allowing those people that information is hurting the people more than helping them.

leslieh2012 said...

connorm- i'm sorry that you can't think about a better meaning of live. Keeping religion out of this, the other meaning of life would have to be to make ourselves and others better. We make the world a better place to live in.

connorm said...

Bayley would you rather be miserable or sad or something like that the world works on how you are feeling and not a whole lot more, like fun may be ban because hitler consider burning, gassing, and torturing jewish people fun so feeling is a downfall of humanity.

mariep2012 said...

Austin - so is the purpose of life to be happy?

Laurao said...

Leslie-

Thank you. That is a very good comment.

katieh2012 said...

Ashley- I think Bradbury felt that the technology would go to our heads. Like we become "invinsible" and we use that to our advantage, but what about those people without technology? Do we cause harm to them through our showing off?

leslieh2012 said...

omigosh i hate watching tv.
go ahead, burn me at the stake.

johnc2012 said...

Marie-

Do you really want me to tell you what is the answer to life? Isn't that waht cause this society to fall apart anyways? (People telling you what you have to find fufilment and joy in)?

Maxe2012 said...

Marie- There is this movie where this guy inherited a lot of money and all he ever did was watch movies and do fun activities. After a while, he realized that there was more to life than fun, there is a feeling of accomplishment that people need and people need to feel like they helped society. So while fun is good, it isn't everything.

Brianc2012 said...

carolyn- I think that Clarisse is challenging the system by questioning the world. She is a person who understands the world around her while many other people sit in from of a TV or race cars all day.

bayleyk2012 said...

Connor- thats shallow

hannahg2012 said...

People have mentioned that the purpose of life is to be happy. Everyone thinks of happiness differently. So what exactly is happiness?

mariep2012 said...

John, I don't really know where you are coming from...explain please...

alexandriab2012 said...

Marie-
I agree. I think that we as a human must decide what will "be a filled life." No one can truely decide except for you.
A famous philosofer said that we can't learn without making mistakes, yes the affect could be painful, but we must take the consciences.

chelseac2012 said...

Nick –
The government has taken away the ability to learn in different ways. The people can learn but probably not very much; they won’t learn diverse things. The people will only learn what the government wants them to learn; what they want them to know they will know while what the government doesn’t want them to know, they won’t.
So they really aren't learning at all.

PeterH2012 said...

Bayley- Although that is true, do you think the government is complaining about that?

Inner Circle- I doubt the government thinks they're failing! The whole point is that the government is controlling everyone to the point of submission! Thoughts?

carolynf2012 said...

Max,
I have to disagree, I think our government is doing a pretty good job. The people may not always be happy but then they wouldn't be doing their job. The job isn't to keep the people happy, but do what is best for your people.

AustinW2012 said...

Marie-
Yes I think that is the purpose of life. what else has remained constant for all people in all time is that they all want to feel happy. How many people here can honestly say they don't like to be happy? In the end everyone will die so it's about what you can do with the time you have.

leslieh2012 said...

well i know for a fact that if you don't sleep, you are NOT a happy camper.

katieh2012 said...

Nick- It sure seems that way. At the shcools, they play sports rather than studying, and like Clarisse said, ther is no benefit to it. And those who try to learn through books are prosecuted, and their books are banned. So if the gov't wants to eliminate mistake, they figured the best way to do so is limit everything else.

Maxe2012 said...

hannah- happiness is an opnion if the same thing made everyone happy then a utopia could be easly achieved. However, not everyone is made happy by the same things.

carolynf2012 said...

Brian,
But what exactly is "understanding the world"?

nickb2012 said...

inner circle-stephanie explained how the gov't has sort of taken away the ability to make mistakes. As teenagers, we make mistakes, and we learn form them.

All- My question is- If the gov't has taken away the ability to make mistakes and learn from them, has the gov't taken away the ability to learn completely?

Maxe2012 said...

Carolyn- This country is democratic for the reason that everyone's opinon is heard. If everyone's opinion is ignored and the government doesn't do what the people think is best, then it isn't doing its job.

hannahg2012 said...

Nick- I agree. I think that without making mistakes, we can never learn right from wrong. We can't learn and grow from our experiences.

carolynf2012 said...

Nick,
It depends. Do you think that the only way to learn is from your mistakes?

robertc2012 said...

Leslie and everyone else - Wow, this is a really interesting topic brought up. The meaning of life... that's a difficult question to discuss without bringing up religion. I'm a Christian (people call it a religion, but it's more than that), and I know why I am alive and what my purpose is. I can explain that more if anyone wants me to.

PeterH2012 said...

Nick- Yes! We are learning that we can change things, we are definitely not going to get it right every time, but that just means we are going to keep getting better.

mariep2012 said...

Ausin - You said that we have to take advantage of the time that we have here. What should we do with that time that will truly make us happy, if you know where I'm coming from.

alexandriab2012 said...

Government doesn't want to change because they are in control; they have power, money, and are famous. Why would you change all of that, you have every thing that people dream of having. It takes having a conscience to actually want to change the injustices, the people who are not in control are the ones who can change the government.

Brianc2012 said...

carolyn- I think understanding the world is questioning what people tell you and trying to understand the outside which Clarisse likes to do, while others play sports in school while not learing anything except what people tell them to know.

leslieh2012 said...

austin and marie- the meaning of life is not to be happy! no offence, but that is such a selfish existance. We need to make other people happy and the world a better place to be in. If everyone lived for that, the world would be a much better place. Why do people become inventors and brain surgeons? Why do they become authors and painters? To make the world a better place to be.

Honestly, i probably spend way too much time thinking about time travel,and the meaning of life. Try to think about it.

sammiet2012 said...

Max- Remember how Clarisse brings up the part about her uncle being like a pedestrian and in the pedestrian his house is the only one with the lights on and Clarisse’s house is the only one with the lights on.

Is there some sort of connection with where she has gone? If she has been forced to go to school then what has she been forced to go to school for? Is she a puzzle piece from a different puzzle that they are trying to force into this other puzzle?

mariep2012 said...

Thank you Leslie for bringing up religion! What is the meaning of life for you as a Christian?

johnc2012 said...

Marie-

You asked about "What is the purpose of life for us?" I am saying that i don't want to tell you what the purpose in your life is. I think that you should be able to do that for yourself. So, I think that the government telling people what to think about their purpose ruined the society in which they live.

jays2012 said...

Robert- I would like you to go more in depth in this and tell me your thought of this because I am Christian too.

leslieh2012 said...

Mildred is always plugged in because if she is not distracted from the emptiness, she will fall to pieces.

nickb2012 said...

katie- thanks, i was curious if anyone else thinks that way. I also think the gov't takes away learning so noone can think of challenging the system. The gov't could also be controlling through fear.

AustinW2012 said...

Marie-
it varies between people. That's why a utopia can't be created with more than one person. What makes you happy is different from the people sitting around you.

carolynf2012 said...

Max,
Good point.
But you are saying that you want the people to be happy, yet you don't want the government to over control. But how is the government suppose to make the people happy if they don't have control?

connorm said...

Making someone better Leslie could also make the world worse. The ability to have emotion has sometimes hindered the growth of society. Thinking about how that for 1500 years people went off greed and ambition which didn't get us anywhere in life until great minds like Leonardo Davinci came along and could have revolutionized the world in unimaginable ways. People thought eh was crazy though so emotion got in the way of progress. Many ways have scientific discoveries that could revolutionize the world are stopped or challenged or people are to afraid to act because of emotion. My point is that to escape all this chaos we have a couple of simple emotions: happiness, fun, success, and many more. These offer us a mental sanctuary and that help us through life.

mariep2012 said...

Leslie I see where you are coming from, but by making other people happy, we are happy ourselves, and it's not a superficial or material happiness, it's a true happiness.

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