Monday, October 20, 2008

Fahrenheit 451 Fishbowl 1-40 Period 5

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hannahl said...

Hi Smith's fifth hour! I'm a student from last year's fifth hour and I am sitting in for this wonderful fishbowl. Have fun!

TaylorG2012 said...
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annasophiar2012 said...

What are the walls? Why does Mildred want more walls?

kinseym2012 said...

Alrighty! So what big connections did you see so far? I saw that the girls uncle is the pedestrian. I thought that was interesting. What did you guys see?

SydneyR2012 said...

A.S. -The walls are like huge TV screens

bridgetL said...

The walls are like giant TVs. Mildred wants more so that she can be surrounded and have the full experience

kailynw2012 said...

Is there such a thing as a utopia? What about a one person world were that person makes the rules, is that a utopia?

leahf2012 said...

How do you define the walls?

katiez2012 said...

To answer Kelsey's quesion, I think that it would probably be lost forever. People in that time seem not to care about alot of history so I dont think they would care much about it.

samis2012 said...

anna sophia: I was wondering that too, are they the same as T.Vs?

kinseym2012 said...

AnnaSophia: I was wondering this too. Anybody know?

kaelib2012 said...
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kailynw2012 said...

TV the "palor walls" are a source of mindless action 24/7.

Megg2012 said...

I have a question! Ok so do you think that Clarisse's uncle is old? I think it is kind of weird because Guy Montag doesn't know that firefighters used to put out fires, and Clarisse's uncle knows. I know the question sounds dumb but I was just wondering.

SydneyR2012 said...

Kinsey- oh my gosh I saw the exact same thing! could the "pedestrian" be based off of this book? or was it written before?

bridgetL said...

Kailyn-
There is no such thing as a utopia. What is a utopia for one person could be the total opposite for another. It all depends on how different people think and feel and act as well as how they are influenced by the rules of the utopia

katiez2012 said...

Bridget - good connection with the tvs. I think you probably have the right idea with Mildred wanting to full experience.

kaelib2012 said...

Meg- Clarisse doesnt go to school, so why do you think the uncle would go to work, he probably stays home and does things that he thinks are of value.

annasophiar2012 said...

Did they burn all books? Because it seemed liked Mildred was reading some sort of script. Is it just my imagination or did they say somewhere in the book that fiction was banned.

hannahl said...

kailynw- Another question that relates to that is; can utopia ever be achieved?

katiez2012 said...

Are all of these stories by the same author?

kristenm2012 said...

kalei: If her uncle doesn't go to work, how would he support the family?

kailynw2012 said...

Do you think Mildred ever loved Guy?

jonathanp2012 said...

I think that the history was not recovered because it does not really matter to the people, all the people wanted is happiness in life and history is ussually a sad thing like the holocaust.

bridgetL said...

The walls seem to me to be a more futuristic TV. They are like surround vision and they are all around and the viewer almost gets to interact with it. It is the like the whole show is built around the viewer.

brianf2012 said...

There is a possible utopia if only one person was alive.

hannahl said...

HB is by Kurt Vonnegut and The Pedestrian and F451 are by Ray Bradbury

samis2012 said...

Kaiylin:It all depends on who you ask? Different people have different versions of what they think is a utopia.

Megg2012 said...

A little bit later (like page 50) says something about glass walls. Why are they glass? I thought they were T.V.'s?

katiez2012 said...

I don't think a utopia could ever be achieved. It just seems impossible to me because there will always be people like Clarrise, that are different and want different things. Some of them are bound to stand up for something.

SydneyR2012 said...

How is a utopia being related to 451?

kaelib2012 said...

kailyn-I dont think mildred ever loved guy. it seems like emotion is lost on this world of the future, so I think people are just married because they feel that they should be with someone so they arent lonely, but they dont love eachother

justinp2012 said...

Inner Circle: Why do you think that books were thought to be 'evil'? What made Montag want to keep the books?

kailynw2012 said...

But Bridget what if only one person lived in that world, would that be a utopia for that one person?

leahf2012 said...

Kailyn: I think a utopia is defined as the absence of independence and uniqueness. When people attempt an effort at creating a utopia, the first thing that usually goes is independent thoughts, and in Fahrenheit 451, books can shape independence and can manipulate a person'a unique character. I don't think there is such thing as a utopia where one person rules because an attempt at a perfect society has to be a collaborative effort.

leahf2012 said...

Kailyn: I think a utopia is defined as the absence of independence and uniqueness. When people attempt an effort at creating a utopia, the first thing that usually goes is independent thoughts, and in Fahrenheit 451, books can shape independence and can manipulate a person'a unique character. I don't think there is such thing as a utopia where one person rules because an attempt at a perfect society has to be a collaborative effort.

bridgetL said...

Kailyn- I think that perhaps Mildred had grown over the years to love and respect Guy, but not in the same way as people who fall in love before marriage love each other. She does not want to hurt him or do him any harm, but I also dont know how much she would sacrifice for him.

treyjb2012 said...

Mildred only loves Guy because he buys her TVs. What a bland mindless relationship. Is this what life has come down to in this book?

justinp2012 said...

What is the relationship between Mildred and Guy? Why do you think?

kaelib2012 said...

kristen: i dont know but how does Clarisse plan to get a job to support her family if she doesnt go to school?

hannahl said...

leahf- why do you think people would choose utopia over individuality?

kailynw2012 said...

So I know people who for them happiness lies in love, if there is no love can there be happiness?

kinseym2012 said...

Sydney- The pedestrian and 451 were both written by Ray Bradbury.

OuterCircle- What do you guys think is the significance of this connection between Pedestrian and 451? Is he trying to emphasize a point?

katiez2012 said...

Tray - nice vocab word from last week :) But I agree with you. She doesnt really love him for him.

bridgetL said...

Kailyn- about the utopia. I'm not sure. I guess I would say that in a world with only one person, how could that one person alone achieve what he thinks is necesary? Whether or not that person is okay with being alone, how would they have the resources and help to achieve what is necesary for life, let alone their ideal life.

kailynw2012 said...

Inner circle - why is his name Guy does that mean (since it is a word with meaning) something

TaylorG2012 said...

Bridget I don't think that there is not a utopia, I think that there is not a utopia that has set in stone rules or guidelines it abides by, like you said, its all based on perspective.

treyjb2012 said...

I totally agree with jake. All the descriptions are using stone and marble and darkness and rain. All dull and boring things. And very cold and hard.

jonathanp2012 said...

The people of this society think that books are evil because they tink that the books= corruption. In the book Beuaty says that cat lovers would not like dog books and dog lovers would not like cat books, this would make those people happy.

annasophiar2012 said...

Kailynw- do they even love there? The book mentioned drunkenness, I would think in this society it would be outlawed.

katiez2012 said...

Maybe Mildred is addicted to those pills. I think that she might have tried to kill herself like Ms. Smith is talking about now. Why would she do you think?

kinseym2012 said...

Justin - I think that they have a very strained relationship. They don't sleep in the same bed like a normal married couple and they dont seem to have many deep thoughtful conversations.

annas2012 said...
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justinp2012 said...

In the 1500's, Bible's were burned all across Europe. I think they did this for the same reason as in Fahrenheit 451 because it offended minorities and they wanted peace.

kaelib2012 said...

kailyn-that depends on the person. Some people go through life, and never get married, they live alone. But they seem perfectly happy. Some people need love to be happy, but others are self sustained and can get through life without anyone else

kailynw2012 said...

It really bugged in this book that they have no funerals does that mena that love has no meaning?

SydneyR2012 said...

kaeli - well it said that she wasn't accepted by everyone else, so perhaps she won't need to get a job to support her family. but then again she does need to support herself

justinp2012 said...

I agree with you Kinsey.

leahf2012 said...

Kailyn: (second) I think when a person is unhappy with their own life, they can still love, they just cannot love themselves, if that makes sense. I do think Mildred loved Guy, but her feelings about society drove her to the point where she probably couldn't stand it anymore.

treyjb2012 said...

I didnt even notice that. But that does tie into this book so far. This civilization is so prototype and average.

Megg2012 said...

Kaeli and Trey: Although I agree with what you said, I have started to wonder why Mildred always forgets things. If she does always forget things, I have started to question whether everyone is forgeting everything, and whether she did love Guy at one time, but just forgot.

kristenm2012 said...

Kaeli: I don't really think that Clarisse intends to do anything to support her family. So I see your point, but isn't it the uncles responsibility to take care of her?

kinseym2012 said...

Anna - I think that is true. Everyone has a different way of telling the story. It is really hard to know the truth.

kaelib2012 said...

Taylor-there is no way that in this world there could be a utopia. Everyone has a completely different idea of what a perfect world could be, so unless, like Brian said there was only one person in this world, there couldnt be a utopia.

samis2012 said...

Kinsey: I think he's trying to emphasize what he thinks will, or could happen in the future.

treyjb2012 said...

But Jake isnt that what factory workers in China do today?

justinp2012 said...

Kaelyn: I think so. In the next portion of the reading, it is said that neither of them remember where they met or why they got married.

carolineb2012 said...

Annasophia-I saw the walls as boundaries. She wants more boundaries, and more confinment. They are also full-wall tvs so she wants more television and she wants the television to take over and confine her to the tv.

katiez2012 said...

I agree with Kaeli on the utopia issue. Th.ere is just no way

jonathanp2012 said...

I dont think that Mildred did not try to kill himself because she is happy and takes joy in watching tv all day. She would definately not want to lose watching tv all day.

kailynw2012 said...

* i meant life having no reason

bridgetL said...

Taylor- I think that there could be an individual utopia.A perfect world for that one person. What they view as perfect. However, I view a utopia as a WORLD of perfection. And if the whole world was perfect, all the people would have to think of it as perfect. Reality is, people are different and no society will ever please everyone.

annasophiar2012 said...

Everybody- If Mildred consciously tried to kill herself, wouldn’t she remember in the morning or is she ashamed and denies it/doesn’t even recognize it.

kaelib2012 said...

Kristen-Im not really sure. There is a possibility that he works, but we dont know all about the world they live in, there is a possibility that you work so you have something to do, and the government gives them food and such. Im not sure though

treyjb2012 said...

Thats total untrue Kalie. If you wire someones mind to think something, they will think it. Think about Hitler. He wired kids minds to think one way and they did.

leahf2012 said...

How are the relationships displayed by Bradbury different from what is considered the norm?

leahf2012 said...

How are the relationships displayed by Bradbury different from what is considered the norm?

kinseym2012 said...

Justin - what do you think is the reason that Bradbury made their relationship so strained but the
relationship between Clarisse and Guy so unique and growing? Doesn't their seem to be alot of potential between Clarisse and Guy?

annas2012 said...

meg- it reminds me of Harrison Bergeron. The society forgets things, even the deaths of loved ones. And in F451, it seems that Montag and Mildred forgot how they fell in love.

samis2012 said...

Kailyn: I think that if there is no love then there definitely can't be any happiness because when you love someone or something, it/they usually makes you happy, so if there is no love there can't be any happiness.

justinp2012 said...

Inner Circle: Do you think Clarisse is the only one of her type?

SydneyR2012 said...

The way that Clarisse talked made me realize that there are two types of mind set. One is to just say what is accepted, say the easy answer, etc. whereas another is to always think about things. I find that when I think about things, i tend to have a lot of ah- ha moments, and thats what builds people's ideas

carolineb2012 said...

Kailyn- I think that there definitely can be happinesss without love. Picture someone who just got out of a relationship, they are sad and unhappy, because they no longer have love. But once that person gets over it, they still don't have love, but they can definitely still be happy.

katiez2012 said...

I think that some people have feelings and do love in this town, but some people get married for different reason which may or may not be wrong.

brianf2012 said...

What happened to Clarisse?

kaelib2012 said...

Trey-just because their minds are wired doesnt mean that in their hearts they are happy. A utopia means that it is a perfect world, which means everyone is happy. In the pedestrian, the people werent happy, they just didnt know any better

kaelib2012 said...
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bridgetL said...

The inner circle brought up a good point. Why do people get married in a society like this? If they do not love each other then what is the point. I think they do it because it is thought to be "right" and whether they love the person or not, humans take comfort in knowing that they do not have to go home alone. People as a whole dont want to be alone. The company and the idea of having someone you can depend on is a good thing, at least in a world like that where people seem to be without close friends. So they may not be in love, but does that really mean that they dont appreciate having each other?

kinseym2012 said...

Sami- What do you see that has been predicted correctly between them?

leahf2012 said...

If Mildred really tried to kill herself, wouldn't she be aware of the technology that was used in bringing people back to life in the book?

justinp2012 said...

Sami: You said there if there is no love, there is no happiness. Do you think that maybe TV's make them happy?

Megg2012 said...

The inner circle brings up a great question... Do you think the characters were raised in this kind of society, or were they raised in a different kind of society, and they just don't remember?

samis2012 said...

Kinsey: I was thinking that too! The relationship between Guy and Clarisse is becoming much more than just two people who talk everyday.

treyjb2012 said...

I agree with Annasophia. If a mindless figurative corpse can commit suicide what else could these supposed Tv addicted people do?

Megg2012 said...

As Jacob brought up... Do you think anyone is challenging the system here?

katiez2012 said...

Kinsey - I agree with you about Clarrise and Guy. They already seem closer than Guy in his wife don't you think?

SydneyR2012 said...

Yes, I agree with bridget

carolineb2012 said...

About what the inner circle is saying- Isn't happiness a state of mind? Would we really apprecitate the sunny days if there weren't rainy ones also? I think that it's not the things that make us happy, it's not having the bad. We need something to compare the happiness to.

treyjb2012 said...

Exactly leah.

kailynw2012 said...

Maybe Mildred didn't mean to kill herself, she is just numbing herself.

kristenm2012 said...

Kalei: Earlier, I remember Guy talking about how buying the TV's cost him a lot of money so that made me think that they still needed money to take care of themselves.

hannahl said...

How do these quotes connect:

"One time, as a child, in a power failure, his mother had found and lit a last candle and tere had been a brief hour of rediscovery, of such illumination that space lost its vast dimensions and drew comfortably around them, and they, mother and son, alone, transformed, hoping that the power might not come on again too soon..." (Page 7)

"'Play the man, Master Ridley; we shall this day light such a cnadle, by God's grace, in England, as I trust shall never be put out.'" (page 36)

samis2012 said...

Brigit: I agree and also before people married for love they had arranged marriages, where, sometimes, the bride and groom meet for the first time on their wedding day.

bridgetL said...

Caroline- I do not think a person can be happy without love. A person may be sad getting out of a relationship then get over it. But through it all they still have some family or co-workers or friends that love them. Think about the depressed suicidal people in movies and stuff. Most of the time they seem to be alone. Without friends or family or any connection the world.

brianf2012 said...

If they are always burning books how do they keep finding them?

kaelib2012 said...

Caroline, good point. When youre sick, you arent happy. but when you feel better, you are all of a sudden happy because you appreciate being healthy. If life were just monotony, no one would be happy

kinseym2012 said...

Sami and Katie- It seems like they might have a relationship bigger than just friends or two people talking on the street.

TaylorG2012 said...

Inner Circle- you were saying that how can these people be happy and everything and thats a reason to back up her choices as labeled as "suicide" but if they go through that every day then I don't think they would know any better and right now as I am writing this Brooke is explaining the exact same thing. But anyways, yeah I am not sure if they have been living this way for such a long time that they still classify it as unnhappiness because how do they know what happiness is anymore.

carolineb2012 said...

Bridget- I think they get married out tradition. It's something that has always been done, and they continue to do it without thinking about it, like they don't think about anything else.

katiez2012 said...

Kailyn. Good point. I think that could be a great possibility

kaelib2012 said...

Kristen: Thats a good point. Maybe they have to spend money on things that they want that arent necessary for living

kelseyc2012 said...

Leah: I don't think she was awake during the stomach pumping and such. She didn't know what had happened the next morning.

jonathanp2012 said...

Mildred would change if another Clarrise came to her and asked important questions to direct her to the question,"are truly you happy?"

SydneyR2012 said...

Also, another quirk in Guy and Mildred's relationship is that they don't sleep in the same bed. I find that odd, because usually like nowadays, when couples don't sleep in the same bed it means problems

kaelib2012 said...

Brian: Think about how many books there are in the world right now. If people were hiding books, then it could take firefighters forever to find all of them and burn them.

kinseym2012 said...

Kailyn: That is an excellent point! Life there sounds so dull that I would want to numb myself too.

justinp2012 said...

Caroline: I agree, but is it possible that people can appreciate sunny days without experiencing rainy ones? Some people are just happy that they are actually survived the night. I once talked to this homeless man in LA and he talked about everyday being a struggle for survival.

katiez2012 said...

Brian - because there are so many books in the world and people may keep bringing them in from other places because they love to read so much.

brianf2012 said...

Clarisse is challenging the system in my mind. She does not go to school and she does what she wants. The whole sociey is always in a routine and Clarisse has no routine.

kailynw2012 said...

Trey - these "mindless people" could be capable of living without life.

bridgetL said...

Caroline- Very good thought. I was kind of thinking the same thing. That is certainly true. It is like some things we do today. Do you ever notice how sometimes people say "How are you?" but dont stay to hear the answer. It is just something we say, but doesnt really mean anything. But do you think that that could grown into more? They get married because they are supposed to, but they end up depending upon that relationship.

treyjb2012 said...

So far you know no one has mentioned the Hound. That thing was really freaky how it wasn't alive and it had a probiscus and weird insect legs. Doesn't anyone else think that is foreshadowing?

Megg2012 said...

Kaeli: Do you think, though, that the society thinks they need T.V's?

brianf2012 said...

Katie: Does that mean this is only in America?

samis2012 said...

Hannah: To start with the obvious, they both talk about candles, but the deeper meaning, I think, is that they both use candles as a beacon and something that takes away the darkness. The candles symbolize the coming of a new tomorrow, or just the coming of something.

carolineb2012 said...

Bridget- You bring up a good point about not being happy without any love at all. I guess it's true that there cannot be happines without love

katiez2012 said...

Brian - good thinking with challenging the system. I think you are absolutely right

justinp2012 said...

What is Mildred and Guy's 'problem?' What do you think?

leahf2012 said...

Kailyn: I completely agree. Just because a person is living does not mean they have "Life"

katiez2012 said...

Brian - that's a good question. We should see what the inner circle thinks?

annasophiar2012 said...

Question- why does the dog pick out Montag? Does it sense change in a person like regular dogs?

hannahl said...

samis- Great answer! So do you think Guy is a candle? Clarisse? Did the old woman light a candle in Guy that will never go out?

kailynw2012 said...

The scary thing is is this so far off? I know someone who numbs herself with drugs, and has become addicted to the life, I mean its not a society yet, but there are people.

kaelib2012 said...

Meg: They may think they need it, but the government probably knows that they really dont need tv so they make them buy the tvs for themselves, most likely so they can make money

kinseym2012 said...

Justin - I think that they don't love each other. You can stay with someone forever and not be happy. They are just not very connected because they are not in love.

bridgetL said...

Justin- Really good point. It is like the utopia thing. What is happiness? It is different for everyone.

Megg2012 said...

Do you guys think that Guy will eventually challenge the system, or only Clarisse?

katiez2012 said...

Caroline- you bring up a good point with no love means no happines. But do you think it has to be people that someone loves? Perhaps someone is happy in this town because they love their tv, or something else like that. what do you think?

SydneyR2012 said...

Justin - Well maybe the problem is that all the excitement has worn away. like you know how you'll get a new puppy or kitten, but as soon as they grow up and get fat, there just another thing hanging around the house. Maybe theyre just bored?

carolineb2012 said...

Justin- I see your point, but the homeless man in LA was happy that he was surviving because he didn't think that he was going to. He was sad because he thought that he might not make it through the night, and then when he did he was happy. I'm not saying that just experiencing the unhappiness makes someone happy, but it does help.

treyjb2012 said...

I think its just like Harrison Burgron. Everything simply cannot be equal. There has to be someone who is better.

justinp2012 said...

If they destroy everything that contradicts another person or their beliefs, wouldn't everything be destroyed?

leahf2012 said...

I heard Ziven ask what this book criticizes. I think it sometimes criticizes when you search for a utopia, things that are more important than equality are lost.

katiez2012 said...

Meg - I think Guy will eventually challenge the system. He is already starting to think that he needs to start doing something. He obviously likes books and I think he will want to change things.

kinseym2012 said...

Megg- I think that Guy is too afraid to challenge it alone so I think Clarisse will have to help him.

hannahl said...

megg- another question to go with that: Does Guy have "what it takes" to challenge the system? what is required to challenge the system?

brianf2012 said...

I found a connection between the pedestrian and Farhenheit because the pedestrian was a writer and now in Farhenheit there is no writing because there are no books.

justinp2012 said...

Great answer Caroline. I agree completely.

jonathanp2012 said...

there is no such thing as a utopian society because at least one person challenges the system sooner or later.

samis2012 said...

Kinsey: I think that he correctly predicted that machines and technology would become more and more a part of our lives. Just think about your everyday lives, how much of it could you not accomplish, or make it very hard to accomplish without technology.

SydneyR2012 said...

love [luhv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, loved, lov·ing.
–noun
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.

Megg2012 said...

Kaeli: But that's the point. It was the government that established that T.V. was going to be how the society was run. What do you guys think about only learning the arts (Acting, etc..) in school instead of history and math...

carolineb2012 said...

Katie- I was just using people as an example. If people love something else, their tv or a pet for example, then they love it, they are happy. But sometimes it gets to the point where you don't appreciate what you have anymore, and you begin to not love the thing anymore

bridgetL said...

Katie- I do not think that a person simply has to love something else to be happy, but rather they have to be loved by something else. And reality is a TV cannot love back. A friend, a family member, even a dog can however. Some people are extremely lonely in life. They may be passionate about some sort of hobby, but does that mean they are happy night after night doing that hobby alone?

treyjb2012 said...

Thank you annasophia for changing to the dog. I don't quite know. Perhaps it can smell books? I don't know or maybe hes makeup is similar to a targeted person.

katiez2012 said...

Kelsey brings up a good point in the Inner circle. For equality, you must treat everyone the same. No one should be better than anyone else. But I think in some ways equality could cause even more problems than we have now.

annasophiar2012 said...

I would way rather live in this world then the world in Harrison Bergeron. But I guess in F 451 thoughts are looked down upon or thought as weird. and in harrison Bergeron they forcefully make people not think. The difference is that in 451 people make a decision to not think and be mindless, but in Harrison Bergon the gov. forces them to all to be "equal"

justinp2012 said...

Inner Circle: Why has technlogy become so important in our lives? It makes us lazier, as it is shown in Fahrenheit 451.

hannahl said...

annasophia- So you would be okay with a lack of literature and free thought?

kinseym2012 said...

Sami - I agree. I mean even now in class, this class would not be possible if it weren't for technology. We are all on laptops and not having very much human connection. Is this what Bradbury feared would happen?

katiez2012 said...

Bridget and Carol - I agree with both of your comments. Being loved makes happiness MUCH easier to achieve. No matter what it is.

carolineb2012 said...

I think that the book definitely does critisize utopian society.

treyjb2012 said...

But we can always seek peace Zibin. That doesn't mean we have peace. It means we are seeking it.

kaelib2012 said...

Meg-I think the government knew exactly what was going to happen if they made everyone love tvs, and I think they wanted that to happen. They wouldnt have to deal with as many people breaking the law, and there would be much less conflict. They knew it would make their lives easier

kaelib2012 said...
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hannahl said...

annasophia- Also, do they really have the choice to be mindless?

bridgetL said...

Katie- Does equality have to be equal? I think that women and men can have fair treatment for example, but not have everything the exact SAME. All people are different, so things can be changed so that both sides benefit EQUALY, without being treated the SAME.

Megg2012 said...

Hannah- I think that he will have to grow in his understanding of the society, and "how" to rebel, to challenge the system. I think he will need some help. I don't know who will help him though, because later on "Clarisse is run over by a car."

TaylorG2012 said...

Brian- I think that someone said in the inner circle that all the books contain all the history and knowledge of the world and I think it would take a long long time to destroy it all after this whole world has spent many many years gaining all the knowledge and making new discoveries. So if this act was to ever realisticly happen it would take a very long time.

justinp2012 said...

What has technology done for us? list the points of good and bad. Does one outweigh another?

SydneyR2012 said...

Yes i agree with annasophia. In 451 they can CHOOSE to think or not think, but most people just don't because its just "the thing to do" and that kind of average person has a fear of rejection. Which is why everyone just clumps together

kinseym2012 said...

Justin - I think that some technology is a good thing, like all the technology that has expanded our learning and helped cure diseases. But other times technology can be useless. I mean why watch television when you can read a book? I think in little doses technology is good but we get addicted to it.

hannahl said...

megg - So one of the important aspects to you of challenging the system is someone to help you? How does this relate to Macbeth?

katiez2012 said...

Bridget - How can everyone be equal when they aren't treated the same? Help me understand what you are thinking please:)

treyjb2012 said...

Oh! Thats a great point. What would Bradbury think of what we are ingaged in right now. Would he consider this human to human talking.

annas2012 said...

The book criticizes a lot of things. It is an exageration of possible problems that could pop up.

brianf2012 said...

Opinion plays a big role in almost everything.In an attempted utopia people with strong opinions will challenge what is happening or go their own way. Conflict arises from peoples different opinions. Also, if no one had different opinions there would be no change.

samis2012 said...

Justin: I think that the T.V. is so much of part of their lives that it can't possibly make them happy.

Megg2012 said...

Kaeli: So do you think that the government thought that T.V.'s were necesary?

hannahl said...

sydneyr- Are people choosing to be mindless to fit in in today's society? In this school?

Megg2012 said...

**necessary

bridgetL said...

Sydney- I think people clump together because that is how we were made. People have always, all throughout history wanted to conform. They have struggled for acceptance. That is just human nature. Just like how some animals travel in packs and some live alone.

SydneyR2012 said...

Hannah- i think that people dont necesarily choose to be mindless, they just kind of shy away from something that takes effort. They kind of go with the flow, and never stop to think. So maybe they just choose to not be individuals, because its easier

kailynw2012 said...

They can choose to think but what if they brought this on themselves.

kinseym2012 said...

What do you guys think has come true from Bradbury's predictions in the pedestrian and 451?

Megg2012 said...

Do you think, by the text of 451 that Bradbury was looking forward to this kind of future because of the "equality" or fearing it?

kaelib2012 said...

Meg: no i dont i think that they know that TVs arent necessary, and they just wanted the world to think that TVs are necessary. They know how it really is

justinp2012 said...

The book exaggerates many things, but some things are quite accurate. Don't you think that some people in our world right now is overly addicted to things, like TV?

carolineb2012 said...

Katie- I think what bridget is trying to say is that the governement wants everyone to be as equal as possible, even if they can't be EQUAL

katiez2012 said...

BRIAN - I think that you are right. Pretty much every discusion or debate that we have in school comes down to that it's all about perspective. Everyone thinks something different so there is no way everyone can agree.

kaelib2012 said...

Meg: he was obviously fearing it. If he looked forward to it, he would make this society seem amazing and happy, which he didnt do

samis2012 said...

Hannah: I think Guy isn't a candle yet but he is going to become one. People like Clarisse and the old women are the ones that are making him a candle and they are also the ones who I think are going to be the ones who will light the candle.

katiez2012 said...

Caroline - I see. That makes sense

katiez2012 said...

Caroline - I see. That makes sense

kinseym2012 said...

Meg - I think that he was fearing it. I think he is making the point that equality is not always a good thing. Equality ruins individuality. What do you think?

bridgetL said...

Katie- What I meant was rather than equal treatment, equal benefit? Think about dogs and cats. You could treat both equaly by giving them both a litter box. But would that work for the dog? Would the outcome be equal for both? No, just the treatment. Instead, you give a dog the yard they need and the cat the litter box they need. Neither one nicer in comparison than the other. The treatment is not equal, but the outcome is. Both end up equaly happy. Didnt you like that anology? :)

hannahl said...

Inner circle - "He who controls the past, controls the future" -1984

kailynw2012 said...

Then how do we now that the history that is taught is real? No one from Franklin's time is alive anymore to correct us.

treyjb2012 said...

Everyone always says addictions are bad. Its true. Even an addiction to doing good is bad because eventually you will die because you will give away all your food.

justinp2012 said...

Equality is great. until a certian point. In both Harrison Bergeron and F 451, they stepped over this line. Could this, however, be possible in our world?

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