Thursday, October 30, 2008

Fishbowl 451 91-136 Period 2

220 comments:

1 – 200 of 220   Newer›   Newest»
TristanL said...

What do you think the title of this section represents? What does it mean?

KyleL2012 said...

When Beatty dies, he quotes Julius Ceasar before he dies. Does that mean that Beatty broke the rules and read a lot?

TristanL said...

Why does Faber offer to read to Montag at night?

AustinW2012 said...

how he burns all the fireman's houses.

katieh2012 said...

Tristain- I think it represents fire (once again) because almost immediately in the section, Montag uses his fire as a weapon to get what he wants.

KyleL2012 said...

Tristan-I think that the title shows the evil of fire and it's destruction.

TristanL said...

Kyle ~ I think that Beatty thought that he wouldn't get in trouble for reading, because he was the captain of a fireman team. Then he died. Oh well...

ericak2012 said...

Kyle-
Can you honestly call reading 'breaking the rules' or can you call it 'challenging the system'?

leslieh2012 said...

How did Montag's house burn down if houses have been completely fireproofed? That is why the need for regular firemen ceaced to exist. How did the wall screens burn aswell? These things aren't supposed to burn. Do they have magic fire or something?

jays2012 said...

Tristan- Faber offers to read to Montag because while sleeping, you can still hear the information so the more reading Montag hears, the better he will understand the knowledge. Also, Faber only sleeps 5 hours so he has time to read to Montag

Laurao said...

Tristan-

Faber has probably not had any friends or anyone to talk to so Faber wants to read to Montag.

johnc2012 said...

Tristan-

I think he does that because he wants montag to remember the bible and what is stored inside it. Although the books can be destroyed, if he memorized it then no one can take it away from them

robertc2012 said...

Bradbury names a lot of things after animals: the Salamander, the Snake, the Beetle, the Hound... Why?

KyleL2012 said...

lesleih-I think when they say "fireproofed" i think that the houses can't accidentally be burned down, but they can be intentionally burnt down.

katieh2012 said...

At the end of sand and seive, Mildred slips easily back into her previous state when shes with her friends. She almost completely forgets about the books (or so it seems). Why?

TristanL said...

Kyle and Katie ~
The section is called Burning Bright. This could also represent knowledge, coming out and being bright. It could be life, which burns bright. I just think that the title shows that happiness is going to come out soon.

austin d 2012 said...

In the scene were Montag's house burns down, and Montag kills Beatty, Beatty seems to want to die.
Why?

jays2012 said...

Does Beatty read books if he knows all this informamtion?

PeterH2012 said...

Do Montag and Mildred even know anything about each other? If she is willing to get rid of her house to make montag get in trouble, do they have a relationship?

AllisonM2012 said...

Tristin~ I think that it could mean first represent Beatty burnng bright when Montag caught him in fire. The deeper meaning I think would be how Montag is stepping out of the norm and being noticed by others for his ideas.

hannahg2012 said...

Tristan- Faber offers to read to Montag at night so that he can start to retain what he is reading. He is helping him train his brain to remember.

KyleL2012 said...

erica-Well in their society it is breaking the rules to read, my question is did he read a lot and that's why he quoted Julius Cesear

Laurao said...

Kyle-

Beatty can read books as much as he wants. Beatty is the head of the firemen so he can just deny that he is reading books. No one can even try to challenge Beatty because he is so smart.

ericak2012 said...

The inner circle said that to Mildred, Montag is just 'some guy that pays her bills.' Why does he stick around?

PeterH2012 said...

Kyle- Beatty said that all firemen have one day to turn in a book if they take it. Maybe he takes books, and turns them in the next day

johnc2012 said...

Katie-

I think it's because she not only didn't want to be reminded of them (I mean it was pretty much a threat to everything she cared about) abd that they left no effect on her. They, in the same space of time were the most and least important thing to her

hannahg2012 said...

Austin- I think Beatty wanted to die because he truly is unhappy. Just like Mildred is unhappy and she took all of the pills.

alexandriab2012 said...

Kyle-
I think that your right he read a ton. So, he put people in jail for same thing he was doing. With power, you can break any law you want.

carolynf2012 said...

Jay-
But how can Beatty actually know it all? I don't get that.

katieh2012 said...

Robert- Well, he might be hinting at the animal instinct. Like a hound has a hunting instinct, and thats what the mechanical hound does. The other animals he uses have different natural instincts and therefor different purposes. Some of the animals also have mythological meanings (like the phoenix...)

stellab2012 said...

Laura -
I don't think it's just because Beatty is so smart that no one can challenge him, but also that no one really knows how to challenge him.

mariep2012 said...

OUTER CIRCLE - IF YOU WANT TO ASK THE INNER CIRCLE A QUESTION, PLEASE TYPE "INNER CICLE" IN CAPS SO WE CAN SEE IT! THANK YOU!
Marie

KyleL2012 said...

Tristan-The fire was used a lot during the first part of the chapter for the destruction of things, including killing Beatty. It could also mean that Beatty's soul burns bright as he goes onward to.......whatever comes next.

jays2012 said...

Carolyn- I think Beatty has read many books. I don't see why he has been turned in. Is it because he doesn't keep the books? Is he old enough to have read books when they were "okay?"

ashleys2012 said...

Is there really love in their society?

Laurao said...

Stella-

I agree that Beatty cannot really be challenged, but it is because of his power and knowledge, not just Beatty himself.

ericak2012 said...

Alex and Kyle-
With power you can break any law you want?
I'm going to use a kind of funny example here, but Lindsey Lohan has a lot of power, she has been in countless movies, and then she broke the DUI law, she had power and she broke the law and now she is looked down upon for it. So can you really break any law you want as long as you have power?

johnc2012 said...

Austin D

Maybe it's that because he knew all sorts of liturature and knew that he couldn't really use it. Beatty, in this sense, is like the old woman, in which she would rather die than live without the knowledge that they know

TristanL said...

Erica ~
I think Montag sticks around, at first, because he is still with society. He hasn't been changed by Clarisse yet, but after he meets her, then he begins to see that Mildred isn't exactly the person who he married, or never really was the person he married.

loganc2012 said...

Erica- Guy stays around because at the beginning of the story he is just like her. He doesn't love Mildred he only thinks he has to be with her in a way. Once he begins to think about everything and realizing that things are wrong he continues to stay because he thinks there is hope. He thinks that Mildred can change like he cahnged.

carolynf2012 said...

Mildred and Montag obviously don't have real love or connection, so why are they married?

nickb2012 said...

Kyle,
I think Beatty knew more than he let on. I connect this to the giver, and how the society doesn't know all of what is going on

katieh2012 said...

John- so because the books threaten everything she cares for, what is montag toher? and why did the books which contain so much valuable information, leave such a small mark? Is she really so shallow?

ericak2012 said...

Tristan-
What kind of person do you think she was when they did get married? I mean, if Montag hasn't been changed yet why was Mildred?

johnc2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE

(Your welcome Marie)
How alex is saying, if there is no love how do people choose who they live with? And what does this tell us about the importance of Marriage in their society?

carolynf2012 said...

Leslie,
Do you think all the characters in F451 have symbolic names?

KyleL2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE- Beatty seems to have a lot of knowledge about books and even quoted Julius Cesear when e dies. Which side do you think Beatty took? I mean Montag thought he wanted to die and Beatty was the head of the firemen.

sammiet2012 said...

Tristan- Faber reads to Montag at night because he knows how much he wants to learn the meaning of books. Also Faber doesn't want Montag to turn on him ether, if you remember when Beatty was trying to confuse Montag when he came back to the firehouse.

AllisonM2012 said...

Katie~ I think that Mildred didn’t actually slip back into her normal state. She wanted to cover up what Montag had done when he read the poem. She obviously hadn’t forgotten because she also turned Montag in and had their house burned.

austin d 2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE(Marie)- Love in the society has taken on new effects in the society. How has this changed the society even more? What are the longtime affects?

nickb2012 said...

carolyn,
i think tey don't marry for love, but for some other reason. Like in The Pedestirian. It's not normal to not have a wife. What is this other reason.

ericak2012 said...

Leslie and Carolyn-
Maybe all have symbolic names but maybe not. I mean think about it, are Clarisse and Mildred nearly as general as Guy?

alexandriab2012 said...

kyle-
How else would he know that much history, know that many quotes from books. Most of the people in this world don't read so how wouuld he know tha without reading.

carolynf2012 said...

Is the meaning of marriage in the book just to be able to say, "I'm married"?

TristanL said...

. ~INNER CIRCLE~ .
Does anyone realize that sometimes the characters who leave an impact on the main character(s) are never really identified truly? What was Beatty's last name? (Or first name?) In Lord of the Flies, we never learned Piggy's real name. What was Macbeth's other name? Lady Macbeth's other name?

katieh2012 said...

Austin D- I think that Beatty wants to die because he had so much information at his disposal, but he lived in a society in which it was useless. Maybe he is so unhappy that he doesn't want to be there anymore. Or he knows and agrees with montag's motives.

KyleL2012 said...

ANYONE INTERESTED-The book and the Giver are turning out to be a lot like eachother, Montag and the receiver of memory (can't remember name) first tried to understand the system, and then challenged it. Any thoughts on this?

leslieh2012 said...

carolyn- yesterday some people were talking about how faber is a pencil company. I think that that is a distinct possibility. In every teen fluff novel, aren't there some "popular girl" names? What do you think of when you hear the name Ashley? (just stereotypicly, i know tons of really nice ashleys). Names are often used as stereotypes as a sort of symbolism.

jays2012 said...

Ms. Smith brought up how Montag means something that Ray Bradbury didn't know. Montag's name is a Paper Co. And Faber, his name is a Pencil Co. So to add on with this, Faber is like the knowledge writing onto the paper and sparking this information.

austin d 2012 said...

Hannah- Couldnt it be for another reason too, because he seemed to know what was going on in the society and could he of possibly known his life was wrong?

hannahg2012 said...

Carolyn- I think that marriage has no importance in this society. I think people get married not because they love each other, but because it is custom to be 'married'.

Laurao said...

Carolyn-

I'm jumping in here. I don't think that each character has a symbolic name. Ray Bradbury said that he didn't even know that the name Montag meant a paper company.

alexandriab2012 said...

laura-
So, what happened to Guy's leg?

ericak2012 said...

Carolyn-
Currently, if someone says that they are single or they are divorced some people think 'Oh, why doesn't anyone like you?' which is a sort of insulting question. Maybe the people in 451 are too self consious to let people think that about them...

johnc2012 said...

Katie
I think that Montag is just a part of life. It’s like a tree you walk by every day. It’s always there but you never really think about it until it is gone. I think it didn’t leave a mark (Not only because she is shallow) but because she doesn’t know how to digest the information

carolynf2012 said...

Erica,
What about Faber? John mentioned last time that Faber means father. This was not an accident.

loganc2012 said...

Katie- I think she is afraid. She is afraid of losing her "family." She is afraid of the punishment. At the same time she is afraid of the books. The books represent the deviation from everything she has ever known. They threaten everything she has ever known.

sammiet2012 said...

Erica- He stayed with Mildred because it is what society wanted. If you recall Mrs. Phelps was saying that her husband, if he died, said that she should just get married again.

katieh2012 said...

Carolyn- I think that the word marriage has changed drastically in their society. Today, you marry someone you truly love but to them, since they don't relly know what love is in their socitey, marriage s also altered.

stellab2012 said...

Katie -
I think that Mildred may seem shallow to us, but in her society, shallow wouldn't fit. As information was falling through with Montag, the same information of society could be falling through with Mildred keeping her from understanding why books could be so important and making even her husband seem less important than other things she really cares about.

nickb2012 said...

Erica,
I think thats why they are all symbolic, guy is general, he is just living life right now. To me, Clarisse is a very happy name, and a very interesting name.
However mildred seems to me much more dreadful, and bland

ericak2012 said...

Carolyn-
Exactly. There are some that have names such as that, but do all? I don't think all of them do...

Laurao said...

Alexandria-

What do you mean about Guys leg?

Laurao said...

Erica-

I'm jumping in here. I don't think that each character has a symbolic name. Ray Bradbury said that he didn't even know that the name Montag meant a paper company.

ericak2012 said...

Nick-
Very true. The sound of the name could have some effect on what people think of them, and what mood they are giving off. I mean words or names that are happier tend to be more fun to say...

leslieh2012 said...

I thought of something last night in that half asleep state. Is comparing life to waffles challenging the system? I would say that challenging the system is THINKING DIFFERENT.

johnc2012 said...

Stella

I don’t understand what you are saying to Katie here
“I think that Mildred may seem shallow to us, but in her society, shallow wouldn't fit. As information was falling through with Montag, the same information of society could be falling through with Mildred keeping her from understanding why books could be so important and making even her husband seem less important than other things she really cares about.

Could you please explain?

carolynf2012 said...

Laura-
Jay-

Laura you said that Ray Bradbury didn't even know that Montag was a paper company. Could it also be coincidental that he might not have known that Faber was a pencil company?
Jay, how does this contradict your thoughts?

nickb2012 said...

erica,
exacty.

TristanL said...

~ EVERYONE ~
Try to imagine yourself in this kind of society, and that you'd lived in this society forever. Would you be like these people in F451? Or do you think you would be a rebel, like Clarisse?

bayleyk2012 said...

Laura and Erica-

I'm jumping in too. =] I agree with Laura not everyone name will mean something. If so then what does Mildred and Faber mean?

sammiet2012 said...

Katie- Her friends and her family are a safe place for her. It is the place where she knows what is going on so whenever she feels something that isn't an emotion that she recognizes she resorts back to her safe place.

leslieh2012 said...

carolyn- i think that bradburry knew that faber was a pencil company. It has been a pencil company for a LONG time.

nickb2012 said...

leslie,
You really like bringing up waffles, don't you?

bayleyk2012 said...

Everyone-
I have a question. Why did Beatty make Guy start burning his house before telling him when he was done he was going to be arrested?

Laurao said...

Kyle-

I have not read the Giver, but I do agree that first Montag did try to understand the system by reading the books, then they challenge the system.

katieh2012 said...

Stella- so Mildred is just trying to fit into the norm. But I think that she has been exposed to the information, and it either has no appeal to her or she is so content (not necessarily happy) with her situation she wishes to stay the same. she doesn't relly know what knowledge is.

carolynf2012 said...

Erica-
What about Beatty? Do you think this means anything? What about Mildred? Do we know what these names "mean"?

ericak2012 said...

Leslie-
Haha...waffles.
Good point, thinking different can be considered as a way to challenge the system. You challenged the system with your analogy, and Smitty clearly didn't like it while I appreciated it. You did challenge the system by saying that.

connorm said...

Jay- i don't think Faber is information. I think he is a tool for creating information or transferring information. Montag is a representative of paper not information sparking but the paper represents the redistribution of knowledge around. It is sort of like puppet and puppet master between Faber and Montag Faber uses Montag to spread his ideas around the city.

leslieh2012 said...

bayley- back to my stereotyping symbolism theory. When you think of the name Mildred,what do you think of character wise?

carolynf2012 said...

Leslie,
So is it just a coincidence that the main character is a paper company and a character who gives Montag knowledge is a pencil company?

nickb2012 said...

bayley,
someone brought up that faber means father, he is like the father of revolution, or the father of change.

Laurao said...

Bayley-

I know that Faber means father but I will have to get back to you on Mildred. Do you think that Ray Bradbury hid what he knew?

jays2012 said...

Carolyn- I don't think that these names were used by coincidence. Ray Bradbury couldn't make up a name like this just meaning anything. Like in all books, we use names to describe them.

carolynf2012 said...

Max brought of the point that Beatty might be like Faber? Do you think Beatty could've been as smart and wise as Faber but he was just afraid of society?

TristanL said...

"If there was no solution, then there was no problem either. Fire was best for everything!" Even after learning about what is in books, after all of this, even after Faber warns him, Guy still starts to burn down his house. What is his problem?

katieh2012 said...

John-

I think that stella means that we may consider Mildred shallow, but in her society its normal. And as for the information, Mildred just can't absorb any information, so like people falling through society's ideas, the ideas pass right through her.
Stella- Am i along the right lines?

ericak2012 said...

Nick and Leslie-
Waffles keep being brought up because of the way she challenged the system.
I am going to make another analogy here, Smitty is kind of this class' government. Smitty didn't like the fact that Leslie brought up waffles to compare to life. Leslie had challenged the "government" and she challenged the system. This book is all about challenging the system, and that's why they keep being brought up.

johnc2012 said...

Bayley

Probably because Montag already knew what was going to happen afterwards

PeterH2012 said...

Carolyn- I definitely do not think it's a coincidence! I didn't know that together, montag and faber made paper and pencil. It shows how each of them have something to offer

leslieh2012 said...

carolyn- i don't know when the montag paper company was started, so i can't say for shure, but i would say that it was intentional. Montag doesn't know what he is doing, but Faber guides him. You could say Montag is the paper that Faber needs to write on.

ericak2012 said...

Carolyn-
In no way am I saying that they do or don't mean something. But do you prefer hearing the name Clarisse or Mildred?

jays2012 said...

Connor- If Faber means a Pencil Co., then he has the information. Who has the information when you write something? The Writer does. The Writer has a pencil to write this information. What do they write it on? They write it on paper. And as Montag being a name of a Paper Co., that information is being transferred. Montag asks Faber for him to be his teacher.

johnc2012 said...

Katie and Stella-

Oh, ok. I have a kind of random question now. Should books be part of society again, do you think mildred and people like her could re adapt to be part of this new society?

bayleyk2012 said...

Leslieh-

oh wow I love waffles, even if I had pancakes this morning. Thinking different is challanging the system. But not really, it's the beginning of challenging the system. You have to act on those thoughts

alexandriab2012 said...

Tristan-
I think that I would be a rebel. I know that everyone says that they would rebel, and when they actually are in the system they do nothing. But as a kid my parents always taught me to think for my self.
I've always wonder that if I was in this situtation I alway wonder what would I have done. Would I have rebel, or would I hav just stuck with the system. So I guess we'll never know unless a time machine is invented. So, until that time we'll just have to wonder.

sammiet2012 said...

Ashley- There is love in the society, but it isn't the same kind of love we have today. Love in this society is kind of a need. For example Mildred says that she loves her "family" but society hasn't taught the real meaning of love so people associate love as a want or a need not an emotion.

AllisonM2012 said...

Laura~ When Montag talks about his legs I think it is supposed to show the opposite from hands. It could show how hands are Montags’ offense and his legs are his defense.

hannahg2012 said...

John- I think if books were re-introduced to the society that people like Mildred and her friends wouldn't be able to adapt. They have been told that books are bad for so long that I think changing that way of thinking would not go well.

nickb2012 said...

carolyn,
also, paper and pencil go so well together, so montag goes really well with faber. paper is to pencil as school is to learning, and montag is to faber

stellab2012 said...

John-
Katie asked if Mildred was really so shallow.
We were talking about earlier how marriage isn't really how we see it today the way it is in 451. If she's putting her "family" before Montag, her actual family, we may see that as shallow, but in their society, that may not be shallow at all.
I didn't really mean that the information of society was falling through for Mildred. But it's all based on perception - how we see the idea of technology and society before love and marriage, and the character's opinion of it.
Make sense?

TristanL said...

When Beatty dies, he is smiling, and thinks he has won and that Montag would give up and wouldn't kill him. I thought this was like the fifth Harry Potter book (Yes, I just brought up Harry Potter) when Sirius dies. He is smiling, thought he's won, then suddenly he's dead. The only difference is that Beatty is "evil". On that note, what is "evil"? What makes you "good"?

connorm said...

Jay- how can a pencil have information. Like you said its the writer who uses the pencil to record information. So who is using the pencil (Faber) to put information onto the paper (Montag) and why are the doing it?

bayleyk2012 said...

leslieh- When I think Mildred I think, small minded, non thinking, shallow, couch potatoe, she's like a little child. she follows rules but she's older so she's dangerous.

nickb2012 said...

hannah,
i am going to jump in here, if they have adapted to how their society is now, wouldnt it be possible to change back to how it is in our society.

TristanL said...

Alexandria ~
That is a very good point. We never really can know until then.

AllisonM2012 said...

The book 451 it is a futuristic guess of how society will "change". Does anyone think that that "change" will/could ever occur in our society?

ericak2012 said...

Nick-
I'm going to take what you said and turn it. If Faber means 'father' and you said 'Montag to Faber' how can you say Montag to Father?
I realize that you used Faber as a person's name, but I did say I was going to turn it.

leslieh2012 said...

I think that the Montag paper company was made in 1953.

stellab2012 said...

John-
I think that if books became a part of society again, people wouldn't know exactly how to adapt, but I think eventually, they could. Maybe adapting wouldn't happen fast enough in time for Mildred and her friends to adapt, but eventually, society as a whole, could.
The inner circle mentioned that it depends on the teacher and their wisdom. So, for society to adapt and learn again, it would take wisdom of others who know and have understanding of the books.

sammiet2012 said...

Peter- It isn't that Montag and Mildred know nothing about each other it is just they haven’t taken the time to get to know each other. They are in a way like acquaintances.

connorm said...

Bayley- how does that make Mildred dangerous?

hannahg2012 said...

Nick- I think it could be possible but i think many in the society would oppose it. People like Mildred and her friends are so set in their ways that I think they wouldn't welcome the change. Just think of living your whole life believing that books are bad, and then suddenly being told that books are okay. I think it would be a shock to them.

bayleyk2012 said...

Laura and Nick-

So Faber means Faber. Intresting because it's also a pencil company. Do you think that it was Clarisse or Faber who started to make Montag think?

Laura- Mildred means mild and strength. What is that suppose to mean?

jays2012 said...

Connor- so are you saying Faber doesn't have the information, but he is just passing on the information?

alexandriab2012 said...

Erica-
Yes because her punishments weren't as bad as they couuld have been. If she was a normal person then her punishments would have been worst. Sure she isn't looked upon that greatly but she has money and fame.

ericak2012 said...

Sammie and Peter-
Montag and Mildred once knew something about each other. They wouldn't marry a stranger...
But do you think that both of them have changed enough that they really don't know each other?

ericak2012 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bayleyk2012 said...

Connor- Give a three year old a gun and tell him it's a toy. What happens?

nickb2012 said...

erica,
in this analogy, i am using faber as the pencil company, and montag the paper

jays2012 said...

Bayley- If you remember Montag goes to a flashback of when he met the old man. He said it was about a year ago from the last time he saw him. Isn't that when he got his first book? He wasn't sparked by this, but had a little idea. When Clarisse came, that is when it sparked his mind into thinking. That's when he goes back to Faber and asks for him to teach him the knowledge.

KyleL2012 said...

Bayley-Im pretty sure Clarisse made montag start thinking because he was a fireman and happy about it before clarisse and after clarisse he doesn't like being a fireman and starts to hate the society.

alexandriab2012 said...

Laura-
So you know who he was limping after the fire, well what happened to it? How did it happen?

leslieh2012 said...

tristin- i read a review of the batman movie that said it was "too dark". needless to say, i didn't like that. But the point is that everything is relative. You have to have good bad guys in order to have good good guys. If you bombed a test, you really couldn't care less about one measly point. But if you get 99%, one point suddenly is a lot more important. So in conclusion, everything is relative, including good and evil.

bayleyk2012 said...

Jay- So, Faber planted the seed and Clarisse made it grow?

KyleL2012 said...

I want to bring up that paper and pencils can make books, but only paper burns. comments?

stellab2012 said...

Katie-
That's exactly what I meant. And I agree that Mildred was exposed to information that either did not appeal to her or she already felt content, but I also think that she was scared.
She enjoys her "family" and getting caught with books probably worried her that she would lose them. I think this goes along with her contentment. If she's content, why would she want to lose what she has for knowledge she can't retain.

bayleyk2012 said...

Kyle- but would Clarisse have sparked it as much if Guy hadn't met Faber?

AllisonM2012 said...

Carolyn~ I think that Montag and Mildred are married because that is what everyone in their society does. No normal person in that society is unmarried once they are an adult. Although they obviously don’t really love each other, they both love the idea of each other and how it will look to the rest of society.

TristanL said...

Leslie just brought up a good point. Sometimes, though it may seem silly, you might try something you really dislike or even hate just so you can say "oh, I tried that!". Like brussel sprouts. Most people, even before they try them, will say "oh, I don't like those." Of course, adults will be adults and say "Oh, yes you do. Just try them!" then you try them, make a face, and go spit it out in the trash. Then you come back and say "Told ya so..." I'm not trying to shun anyone who likes brussel sprouts. Just like High School Musical, you may not like it, but you may watch just to say, "I don't like it."

stellab2012 said...

Kyle-
Pencils burn too.
I don't think I really get your point. Please explain.

sammiet2012 said...

If your neighbor was a fireman in this society what would you be thinking if the salamander pulled up to that fireman’s house what would be running through your head?

nickb2012 said...

hannah,
what if we were on day told that learning was bad, that school was bad, would we all agree? I doubt it. but because one person is challenging the system, then the idea of challenging the system is placed into our heads.

leslieh2012 said...

Kyle- Think about how pencils can get worn down and dull. Faber had just sat at home for the past ages. Then Montag came along and he sharpened up. Pencils might not burn, but they shure break. The only difference in demises are that pencils leave a trace, and occasionally marks all over the place.

jays2012 said...

Bayley- Exactly!!! Clarisse watered that plant, she made it grow. I think it was there all along. So, it's like Montag had the seed, Faber planted it, and Clarisse made it grow.

ericak2012 said...

~INNER AND OUTER CIRCLES~

Bernardo brought up how he can't make an arguement if he doesn't know anything about the other canidate, becase you can't say why they are bad, can you also make an arguement saying why who you support is good?

KyleL2012 said...

Bayley-Clarisse made Montag think about the past and how much has changed and not so much for the good. Clarisse mad him think of the past and Faber made him think of the future. I'm pretty sure Clarisse made the big spark.

TristanL said...

Kyle ~
That's interesting. But in this book, have you seen anyone writing anything down at all? I haven't. Maybe the people just use computers to write everything down. They don't need to exert their energy to write down.

nickb2012 said...

tristan,
i went to hsm3 because i wanted to make fun of it and see how stupid it is, i completely agree with you.

PeterH2012 said...

Sammie- I still think the society changed everyone to just people living, but not alive. They were brainwashed to not know their past.

stellab2012 said...

Sammie -
I think it would depend on whether or not you were considered "normal" in society as someone who goes to school for sports and watches TV all the time or if you were someone who challenges the system, sneaking books and such. Which one are you going for?

jays2012 said...

Kyle- True! This means that the information will always be there in your head, but not always in the society. You can get rid of what you have written down, but you will always have it inside of you.

connorm said...

Bayley- if you give a three year old a loaded gun it will more or less not shoot it is not the three year old fault but whoever gave him the gun so it would be more the recklessness of an adult. also the child will only shoot it once and figure out that the reason its hand hurts is because of the gun. Then how can u compare a 3 year old to Mildred?

Jay- Faber obviously has a lot of information but he got it form somewhere..... O books so books could be considered the brain of their plan that makes them carry out all their plans and schemes.

Laurao said...

Bayley-

I think that Mildred is the opposite of her name. I also think that Clarisse opened Montags eyes but Faber gave Montag more knowledge of the books.

alexandriab2012 said...

Tristan-
How would you reacted? would you rebel?
Good point by the way.

sammiet2012 said...

Erica- Maybe it isn't that they didn't know anything about each other before but now society and technology have forced them apart and they have forgotten each other.

TristanL said...

Erica ~
If you only knew things about one candidate, and absolutely NOTHING about the other, than you don't have to like the one that you know. It's called neutrality.

johnc2012 said...

Hannah-
So what would happen to the people who couldn't adapt?

Stella-
Where will they find these wise teachers, if everyone is like this

AllisonM2012 said...

Bayley~ I think that if Montag hadn’t met Faber, Clarisse wouldn’t have changed Montag as drastically. Yes Montag would have thought about doing something but Bradbury showed how easily distracted Montag can be. When Beatty was lecturing him Faber had to later re-convince Montag about books and ideas.

KyleL2012 said...

Stella-What i mean is that evrything burns, but paper burns easily. Montag is a paper co. and Faber is a pencil Co. so what i mean is that in the society where burning is the main way to get rid of, montag, the paper, is easier to burn.

carolynf2012 said...

I agree with Bayley and Laura. They mentioned that they think Beatty had the ability to challenge the system but he didn't.

nickb2012 said...

tristan,
i went to hsm3 because i wanted to make fun of it and see how stupid it is, i completely agree with you.

hannahg2012 said...

Nick- I agree. But is everyone else going to follow that one person who is challenging the system? Of course some people would but what about the others? They could possibly prevent the change from happening.

jays2012 said...

Connor- Remember Faber is old, he lived when books were "okay." He has the knowledge stored up, he just has to write it now.

katieh2012 said...

Sammie- i personally would be really confused as to what was going on. But in this society, I think they didn't really think much of anything. My theory is that they just used it as entertainment because when it was done, they just went back inside like everything was normal. they aren't accustomed to thinking or having reactions, so they didn't.

ericak2012 said...

I just looked up name meanings-

Mildred- gentle strength

Clarisse- clear, bright, famous

sammiet2012 said...

Peter- But how did this happen? If society wanted to change can you really call it brainwashing?

carolynf2012 said...

Do you think that there is anyone else in this society that has the knowledge to challenge the system but just haven't because they are scared?

leslieh2012 said...

Tristin and nick- You have to know something to mock it. You can not try something and say you hate it, but you can't make fun of things untill you have experienced them. Upping the pitch on the soundtrack to make a chipmuck version is hilarious, but you have to have a song to do that with. If you don't have the song, you can't make fun of it. I think Beatty read so that he could have ammo to turn against them.

johnc2012 said...

Kyle (You were responding to Stella)

Then, if Montag is easier to destroy, why is Faber sitting alone, hiding in his house. I mean Faber even calls himself a coward, while montag is taking the risks, and so far hasx eveaded even the best of soceitey's death machines

AllisonM2012 said...

INNER CIRCLE:

The book 451 it is a futuristic guess of how society will "change" back in the 50's. Does anyone think that that "change" will/could ever occur in our society?

carolynf2012 said...

Erica-
Do you see how Clarisse is such a bright and happy name? Bradbury definitely had a reason for this.

hannahg2012 said...

John- I think the people who couldn't adapt would just get left behind. Society is not going to wait for these people to change their minds and accept the changes.

KyleL2012 said...

Tristan-That made me think that Faber is writing down on to montag his thoughts, ideas, and knowledge into him. The pencil writes the paper. Paper can burn easily though so what im saying is that montag is easier to get rid of than Faber, easier to burn paper than a pencil.

katieh2012 said...

Erica- this goes to show that every name is chosen for a reason. based on this, are there any other names taht might fortell something?

ericak2012 said...

Carolyn-
Exactly. I never said that her name didn't have a meaning...

TristanL said...

Nick ~
Did anyone tease you for it? I think it's terrible when people tease someone for doing something different. It's kind of like the society in F451. If you so much as look at a book, everyone will shun you. In our society, we have more options, but people may still be shunned if, say, they go see a movie that no one else "likes".

jays2012 said...

Carolyn- Yes many people can challenge the system. Beatty said those ones only come every now and then. Clarisse challenged the system, Faber can challenge the system, Beatty could have challenged the system.

stellab2012 said...

Kyle-
I'm still not catching your drift...

John-
I'm not sure how far you've read, so I'm not really going to give that away, but people like Faber. Not everyone is like Mildred and her friends in society from the impression I've gotten.

bayleyk2012 said...

Sammie- good point. I think it would make you doubt society. But it would also make you fear.

PeterH2012 said...

Sammie- The past was imperfect, so they wanted to change it. The only way to make everyone forget about their past is to start over

loganc2012 said...

Carolyn- Yes I think there are many people who could possibly challenge the system. Everyone whose house the firemen burn has the potential to challenge the system. Every hidden intellectual in the society, every educated person on the run, they could all challenge the system but they don't.

alexandriab2012 said...

Erica-
It's same thing that ashely said, if the person doesn't know why they support that canidate, and when someone gets the facts incorrectly- that dies me crazy.

KyleL2012 said...

Sorry, comment somehow got deleted, lemme post it again

Montag represents paper and Faber represents the pencil. But paper burns easier than a pencil. Comments?

johnc2012 said...

Hannah-

But then, don't you think the wise could help them to understand, or force them to change there ways. This kind of brings me back to the question I asked Stella-

Where are they going to find these wise people?

ericak2012 said...

More name meanings-

Guy-Life

Faber- Maker

jays2012 said...

Erica- everyone in this story has a name for a meaning for something or another. Even if it is Mrs. Blake, it could of been someone Ray Bradbury knew that thought poetry was bad. They don't just make up names. I think the names are the hardest part of the book.

katieh2012 said...

Carolyn- I think that Faber is one of those people. He was an english professor so he obviously knows information. But i also think that there are MANY un-mentioned people in the society who are in the same boat as him (like the old woman).

alexandriab2012 said...

*Outer Circle*
what happened to Guy's leg?

bayleyk2012 said...

Jay- YES! and now montag has grown and is challenging the system!

johnc2012 said...

Stella-

I've had to read this book 3 times, so I was just wondering...

I guess it is better left unaswered

ericak2012 said...

Jay-
Yes. Everyone does have a name for a reason, and we can see it out of just a few...

AllisonM2012 said...

Carolyn~ I think that Beatty could have challenged the system but he knew that is something went wrong then he would lose all the power that he gained. He felt that what he could lose was much less than just having the same thing that he had. Also in the book it talked about Harvard teachers but I don’t think that there are enough people to make change happen.

jays2012 said...

Bayley- Yes! So now that it has grown, all it needs to do is reproduce. Once it grows, it has to reproduce. That is exactly what Challenging the System is.

alexandriab2012 said...

Did anyone else notice how this books takes place in America, does this scare anyone else?

bayleyk2012 said...

Kyle-

Good point, if you don't study the past you're condemed to repeat it. So together they make montag who he is. He knows the past so he can change the future.

bayleyk2012 said...

Kyle-

Good point, if you don't study the past you're condemed to repeat it. So together they make montag who he is. He knows the past so he can change the future.

TristanL said...

Allison ~
I know you directed your question to the Inner Circle, but I'm going to jump in and answer it, too.

I think that as long as Smith's class is around, and that she teaches people what she has taught us. "This is NOT Education as Usual." As long as this is true in Smith's class, then I don't think society will end up like the one in F451.

katieh2012 said...

Kyle- I think that faber then represents the ideas and montag the books. The books can be burned but the ideas can remain IF THEY ARE KNOWN. so montag might "fizzle out" and go away like the books, but those like Faber who know the ideas will remain.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 220   Newer› Newest»