Justin I think there are people that are overly addicted to things like tv, cigarettes, fast food, and drugs in general. Our country also makes alot of money off of peoples addictions which benefits the country but not the individual person.
Justin- I think that everyone may have an addiction, even if it is a good addiction. For instance, people may be addicted to working out or people may be addicted to food, or love, or having fun, or getting good grades or trying to be perfect, etc. There are definitely a lot of addictions, and not all of them are bad.
Taylor- it says in the book that they only burned fiction, because mildred said something about like wh would you want to read a book about people who weren't actually here. So they didn't really burn the history books, just the fiction books
Hannah- I don't think that having someone to help you is always necessary, but at the start, it is important to have even a little support. (F.Y.I. challenging the system isn't always good...)In terms of Macbeth, I think that Lady Macbeth supported him challenging the system.
Trey: But even if you give away all your food, isn't that good for the other person? People have harmed themselves for the good of others, and isn't that considered good?
How long ago did this sort of government start? Did they just brainwash everyone or has this state of mind developed over the years? Carolineb- I agree, happiness is a state of mind. You could just be a really depressed person and hate your own life, but if you are an outsider looking in you might think that person has a fabulous life. Homeless people can be really happy, but a lot of times that is because they are crazy.
Trey- There are different stages of addiction. At some points it is bad, but if someone is slightly addicted to doing good, they are not going to give away all of their food. Only some.
Kaeli: That's what I thought too. I also saw that fear is an evident theme in all of our books so far, and I think that fear is human nature, and can possiably be found in all books. What do you think?
Bridget- I did. ;) That makes sense now. So you mean equality like everyone is given what they need to be EQUALLY happy, even if they are different things that arent equal? I think that's what you mean? Right?
Justin the suffragist movement shows exactly what you were talking about. Those women hurt themselves to get the vote for their daughters and their daughters.
Ben- that is a really scary thought actually but I am not saying that it couldn't happen. But maybe its part of the world progressing because I am not sure that any civilization is perfect yet. But that is my just opinion.
Smith, I will agree that it is much harder to be the directive part of learning at the school, but that might also mean that we learn more in the process
How long ago did this sort of government start? Did they just brainwash everyone or has this state of mind developed over the years? Carolineb- I agree, happiness is a state of mind. You could just be a really depressed person and hate your own life, but if you are an outsider looking in you might think that person has a fabulous life. Homeless people can be really happy, but a lot of times that is because they are crazy.
I have a question, if tomorrow you walked into math class and your teacher told you that you would be able to watch cartoons for that whole class, or you could go take a test. Would you take the test? if that happened everyday, Ya, right? You wouldnt ever learn math, but hey no more tests! was this so much a dictatorship, or a decision?
Thats not true. Dead people cant change the future. People who believe in what they believe will change the future. I think people who control the... actually I see your point. The past has a large affect on the future but as you guys said, the wins write the history books. There for the past is a controlled world
Annasophia- Your comment made me laugh, it was clever. But yes, it's true. I think they may have been brainwashed a fairly long time ago because they are all already used to the way things are and the style of life, it's not new to them, they are not still gettting used to it. Also, they said they burned one of the last candles. It would have taken the socitey a long time to bur.n ALL of the candles we have today, so if it was starting today it would still be a really long time before the last candle was burned
Meg- I agree. I think all of these books were being written about the same time, because they all have fear of similar things. What do you think was going on at this time to make this happen?
kailynw - so are you saying that giving students the decision means that they will all be lazy and do the easy thing? Personally, I wouldn't take the test because I don't think tests properly asses people's learning. If it was a choice between a fishbowl and a cartoon, I would choose the fishbowl!
Trey: As you can see, though, he sort of predicted right. As a society, we are watching a lot of T.V. even if it is not as much as the people in the book. We watch a whole lot more T.V. than people did in the 2000's. I mean think about it.
trey- dead people don't change the future? So you don't think MLK's death changed the future? You disagree that he still inspires changes in today's world?
Hannah: People choose a utopia over individuality because a utopia can accomodate a conform person. I think accomodating people's individual thoughts is more comlicated than having one flat society.
Kinsey - an obvious message would be that society is on the path of conformity, and inhuman things like TV and machines will begin to create mindless people
Trey: Often times it takes dying to change the world. Many religious people believe they can only go to heaven because Jesus died to forgive our sins, which is personally what i believe
Katie- I think that the teenagers in this story (even though we have only witnessed one) are a lot like the ones today, except for the differences the adults have also.
Anna Sophia- I think that this must have taken quite a lot of time and gradually evolve into this type of government because if such a big change occured compared to our government now it would be almost impossible to happen quickly because our society is would hopefully realize what the governments doing. That probably doesn't make sense, sorry.
Thats not what I said Hannah. He did change thinks. But theoretically someone could have made historical figures up. Who knows people like Christopher Columbus might actually not ever have lived
Katie: Teenagers in this book remind me a lot of teenagers today. They do really stupid stuff thinking that they are immortal, they think, "Yeah, that person was killed doing this, but that could never happen to me." Also, like the inner circle brought up, the do really stupid stuff to get a momentary "high" from the adrenaline.
Hannah - I am not sure if everyone would watch the cartoons but I wonder if the majority would do the easy thing, look at our society today would you say that it is a hardworking society. (in general)
Trey: Yes, people have made up characters. But even non-existent characters change things. They may be 'dead' per say, but they can still change many things in which things are thought out.
Trey- I suppose that is possible that it is all made up. But, there is something to be said for faith. I think our modern world focuses a little too much on a need for proof. Everything seems to need proof these days. And even with proof, people dont believe it. Some people still doubt the exitance of the holocaust. We seem to be talking a lot about what could happen. But ANYTHING could happen. Especially in the future.
kailynw- Ah, the question of meaning, you will discover aspects of that with AWNM next semester. I think our society is hardworking, but I think they work for the wrong things. Few work for peace and fulfillment, many work for money. What do you think?
Sami - You're right. Teenagersdon't really think that The bad stuff can happen to them. Like drinking and driving, they might say "oh its a short drive, I can make it, I'm not the type of person to get in a car crash." Oh then what do you know, they die =O
Meg~they were probably trying to eliminate fear. Truly, people probably dont realize they are afraid if they dont think, so the government is doing what they can to make fear go away
Caroline- What I meant was, would if, for example, someone was addicted to loving you. That is good, right? They spend their life trying to make you happy. But then you die. Sorry about that. But what happens then. They are worse off than they were before they became addicted to you. That is a good addiction that went bad when the focus of the addiction disapeared.
Trey, he wasn't trying to offend you, he just maybe reads the bible, and saw a connection there that was meaningful to him. If you see a connection to the muslum book, go right ahead.
Trey- Can people really not fly? As long as we're thinking unrealisticly. Have you ever read Maximum Ride? It is a book about mutated kids that can fly. Could that be real. And the bible is the most read book in all of history.
No exactly I don't and its sad how many times a book is the center of someones life. Is that an obsession? Books are always portrayed as very good thing? Are they bad sometimes?
taylorg - my advice would be, take control of your own learning! When you read, think between the lines, read details and make connections. When she gives you freedom, run with it. You have so many wonderful opportunities to shine as an individual, so be creative! As far as quizzes go, especially for F451, they can be pretty detailed. I would read a chapter a few days before it was due, read ahead! Then, I would skim the chapter the night before and be ready for the next day. Be an active learner, and you will shine!
Sorry to come back, but I just wanted to remind you guys to take this discussion outside the classroom. If there are any questions that went unanswered or that you didn't get to ask, do it now! Try to make big connections between what you have read so far and Macbeth or LOF. Here is one to start you off:
On the bottom of page 37 ("His hand had done it all, his hand, with a brain of its own...) this quote clearly connects to the detachment with actions in Macbeth.
Hannah and Meg- That is exactly like in Macbeth. He alienates his hands from the rest of his body, saying that they did "Bloody work" or something like that. Maybe these are just knee-jerk reactions that people really can't control
290 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 290 of 290Justin I think there are people that are overly addicted to things like tv, cigarettes, fast food, and drugs in general. Our country also makes alot of money off of peoples addictions which benefits the country but not the individual person.
Justin- I think that everyone may have an addiction, even if it is a good addiction. For instance, people may be addicted to working out or people may be addicted to food, or love, or having fun, or getting good grades or trying to be perfect, etc. There are definitely a lot of addictions, and not all of them are bad.
Taylor- it says in the book that they only burned fiction, because mildred said something about like wh would you want to read a book about people who weren't actually here. So they didn't really burn the history books, just the fiction books
Hannah- I don't think that having someone to help you is always necessary, but at the start, it is important to have even a little support. (F.Y.I. challenging the system isn't always good...)In terms of Macbeth, I think that Lady Macbeth supported him challenging the system.
I agree with Kaeli. I think Bradbury was fearing it in an excited way.
Trey: But even if you give away all your food, isn't that good for the other person? People have harmed themselves for the good of others, and isn't that considered good?
Justin- Where is the line? Can it be defined as what is "too far" ?
How long ago did this sort of government start? Did they just brainwash everyone or has this state of mind developed over the years?
Carolineb- I agree, happiness is a state of mind. You could just be a really depressed person and hate your own life, but if you are an outsider looking in you might think that person has a fabulous life. Homeless people can be really happy, but a lot of times that is because they are crazy.
Kinsey: I don't know if Bradbury feared that technology would become a big part of our lives but he just predicted that it would happen.
Trey- There are different stages of addiction. At some points it is bad, but if someone is slightly addicted to doing good, they are not going to give away all of their food. Only some.
Kaeli: That's what I thought too. I also saw that fear is an evident theme in all of our books so far, and I think that fear is human nature, and can possiably be found in all books. What do you think?
Bridget- I did. ;) That makes sense now. So you mean equality like everyone is given what they need to be EQUALLY happy, even if they are different things that arent equal? I think that's what you mean? Right?
inner circle - here's the whole quote; "he who controls the present controls the past, he who controls the past controls the future."
Guys remember again this is a huge hyperbole. This is not entirely realistic. It is not suppose to be. It was written to prove a point.
Bridget- Excellent point. Some things may be too far for some and not far enough for others. It all depends on the person
Caroline- But can even a good addiction be bad when the thing that you are addicted to is lost?
Justin the suffragist movement shows exactly what you were talking about. Those women hurt themselves to get the vote for their daughters and their daughters.
True, Trey, but there is some truth in this, even though most of it is exaggerated a lot.
trey- so are you saying that because it is fiction that it is less important or that it could not happen?
Sami- I agree.
Trey- But the point is fairly possible to us.
Thank You Trey. I think that some of us are taking this too literally and not focusing on the message that was supposed to be given through this
Ben- that is a really scary thought actually but I am not saying that it couldn't happen. But maybe its part of the world progressing because I am not sure that any civilization is perfect yet. But that is my just opinion.
Smith, I will agree that it is much harder to be the directive part of learning at the school, but that might also mean that we learn more in the process
How long ago did this sort of government start? Did they just brainwash everyone or has this state of mind developed over the years?
Carolineb- I agree, happiness is a state of mind. You could just be a really depressed person and hate your own life, but if you are an outsider looking in you might think that person has a fabulous life. Homeless people can be really happy, but a lot of times that is because they are crazy.
Katie- Yes. That's basically it. 2+2=4 for one person
3+1=4 for another. They both get 4 through different ways.
I have a question, if tomorrow you walked into math class and your teacher told you that you would be able to watch cartoons for that whole class, or you could go take a test. Would you take the test? if that happened everyday, Ya, right? You wouldnt ever learn math, but hey no more tests! was this so much a dictatorship, or a decision?
So, how about connecting Macbeth with 451?
Brian: Exactly. Even far back in history, like Joan of Arc, people hahve been executed, tortured, and killed but it all comes up to the greater good.
Thats not true. Dead people cant change the future. People who believe in what they believe will change the future. I think people who control the... actually I see your point. The past has a large affect on the future but as you guys said, the wins write the history books. There for the past is a controlled world
Kind of back to what Trey and Sydney were talking about, what do you guys think is the point of F451?
Annasophia- Your comment made me laugh, it was clever. But yes, it's true.
I think they may have been brainwashed a fairly long time ago because they are all already used to the way things are and the style of life, it's not new to them, they are not still gettting used to it. Also, they said they burned one of the last candles. It would have taken the socitey a long time to bur.n ALL of the candles we have today, so if it was starting today it would still be a really long time before the last candle was burned
I agree with Paul because everyone is lazy because it is really eay to get in the habbit of laziness.
Meg- I agree. I think all of these books were being written about the same time, because they all have fear of similar things. What do you think was going on at this time to make this happen?
kailynw - so are you saying that giving students the decision means that they will all be lazy and do the easy thing? Personally, I wouldn't take the test because I don't think tests properly asses people's learning. If it was a choice between a fishbowl and a cartoon, I would choose the fishbowl!
Sydney and Trey: Yes there is an underlying message that Bradbury is trying to relay, but Don't think that something like this is could never happen.
Trey - Although not entirely realistic is it at all? I definitely think it is.
Could F451 be connected to LOF or Macbeth in any way?
Also alot of the time when a certain group of people is giving away what they have for the greater good they get there way through perseverance.
Trey: As you can see, though, he sort of predicted right. As a society, we are watching a lot of T.V. even if it is not as much as the people in the book. We watch a whole lot more T.V. than people did in the 2000's. I mean think about it.
How do you think teenagers in the story are related to the teenagers in real life?
trey- dead people don't change the future? So you don't think MLK's death changed the future? You disagree that he still inspires changes in today's world?
Hannah: People choose a utopia over individuality because a utopia can accomodate a conform person. I think accomodating people's individual thoughts is more comlicated than having one flat society.
Trey: People have died and changed the future through their death. Even though they died, their contributions and memories live on a lot longer.
Kinsey - an obvious message would be that society is on the path of conformity, and inhuman things like TV and machines will begin to create mindless people
Katie - I think there are two main similarities, they are both more violent and addicted to technology.
Kaeli: I think that humans constantly are living in fear, even if they don't realize it.
Trey: Often times it takes dying to change the world. Many religious people believe they can only go to heaven because Jesus died to forgive our sins, which is personally what i believe
Katie- I think that the teenagers in this story (even though we have only witnessed one) are a lot like the ones today, except for the differences the adults have also.
Anna Sophia- I think that this must have taken quite a lot of time and gradually evolve into this type of government because if such a big change occured compared to our government now it would be almost impossible to happen quickly because our society is would hopefully realize what the governments doing. That probably doesn't make sense, sorry.
Justin MLK is an example of dying, but your actions living on.
Thats not what I said Hannah. He did change thinks. But theoretically someone could have made historical figures up. Who knows people like Christopher Columbus might actually not ever have lived
Katie: Teenagers in this book remind me a lot of teenagers today. They do really stupid stuff thinking that they are immortal, they think, "Yeah, that person was killed doing this, but that could never happen to me." Also, like the inner circle brought up, the do really stupid stuff to get a momentary "high" from the adrenaline.
Sydney- excellent point. Our world is all about conformity.
Meg: I agree. We are always afraid of something. Whether its the weather, or someone in the news, there is always something to be afraid of
Hannah - I am not sure if everyone would watch the cartoons but I wonder if the majority would do the easy thing, look at our society today would you say that it is a hardworking society. (in general)
What does life mean?
trey- Very true. History is uncertain, it is written by winners. so how do dead people who alive people knew change the future for that one person?
Bridget- I'm addicted to my lost dog. (?) What do you mean by lost?
Why do you guys think that the characters in 451 don't value their lives?
Kaeli: On that note, do you think that the government was trying to eliminate fear, or make a better system that they didn't know would lead to fear?
Trey: Yes, people have made up characters. But even non-existent characters change things. They may be 'dead' per say, but they can still change many things in which things are thought out.
Trey- I suppose that is possible that it is all made up. But, there is something to be said for faith. I think our modern world focuses a little too much on a need for proof. Everything seems to need proof these days. And even with proof, people dont believe it. Some people still doubt the exitance of the holocaust. We seem to be talking a lot about what could happen. But ANYTHING could happen. Especially in the future.
Ok guy is everything a bible? What about other books? What about that one Muslim book. Is that related to this
kailynw- Ah, the question of meaning, you will discover aspects of that with AWNM next semester. I think our society is hardworking, but I think they work for the wrong things. Few work for peace and fulfillment, many work for money. What do you think?
Sami - You're right. Teenagersdon't really think that The bad stuff can happen to them. Like drinking and driving, they might say "oh its a short drive, I can make it, I'm not the type of person to get in a car crash." Oh then what do you know, they die =O
I think Bradbury was probably fearing because I mean c'mon personally I would not enjoy a society like this.
Meg~they were probably trying to eliminate fear. Truly, people probably dont realize they are afraid if they dont think, so the government is doing what they can to make fear go away
trey- which muslim book, the koran? Do you think one book should be a guide for an individual's path in life?
Trey: The Qu-ran is considered the muslim 'bible.' Bible actually means book.
Caroline- What I meant was, would if, for example, someone was addicted to loving you. That is good, right? They spend their life trying to make you happy. But then you die. Sorry about that. But what happens then. They are worse off than they were before they became addicted to you. That is a good addiction that went bad when the focus of the addiction disapeared.
Trey-they Bible is actually called the Holy Bible, or the holy book
I don't like when people say anything could happen. People cannot fly with out an aid of some kind (wings engine). Period. No exceptions
Trey- People know the bible. We can relate it to this. We don't all generally read the Quaran, which I believe is the name of "that one Muslim book".
Trey- I'm not sure what you mean. How is everything a bible?
Trey, he wasn't trying to offend you, he just maybe reads the bible, and saw a connection there that was meaningful to him. If you see a connection to the muslum book, go right ahead.
Hanna- AWMN?
Bridget- Would you rather love someone and have them die or not love anyone ever? Which situation is better?
Bridget- Would you rather love someone and have them die or not love anyone ever? Which situation is better?
Trey: True, people have not flown withouit the aid of a flying machine, but it could be possible.
AWNM = A Whole New Mind
Trey- Can people really not fly? As long as we're thinking unrealisticly. Have you ever read Maximum Ride? It is a book about mutated kids that can fly. Could that be real.
And the bible is the most read book in all of history.
No exactly I don't and its sad how many times a book is the center of someones life. Is that an obsession? Books are always portrayed as very good thing? Are they bad sometimes?
Kinsey I love the question you brought up. Why don't they value thier lives. That could be an interesting discussion
Everybody - Thanks for letting me join in, you guys had a great discussion and good thoughts and connections!
Caroline- I agree with that. But is love the same as addiction?
Hannah- I know that this blog isnt about Smith but do you have any advice for us on her not that we need any but just in case?
taylorg - my advice would be, take control of your own learning! When you read, think between the lines, read details and make connections. When she gives you freedom, run with it. You have so many wonderful opportunities to shine as an individual, so be creative! As far as quizzes go, especially for F451, they can be pretty detailed. I would read a chapter a few days before it was due, read ahead! Then, I would skim the chapter the night before and be ready for the next day. Be an active learner, and you will shine!
taylorg - I have a personal blog about learning at AHS, it is
hannahl2011.blogspot.com
Check it out for more about my thoughts on learning.
Sorry to come back, but I just wanted to remind you guys to take this discussion outside the classroom. If there are any questions that went unanswered or that you didn't get to ask, do it now! Try to make big connections between what you have read so far and Macbeth or LOF. Here is one to start you off:
On the bottom of page 37 ("His hand had done it all, his hand, with a brain of its own...) this quote clearly connects to the detachment with actions in Macbeth.
I don't think anyone is checking this but i will ask the question anyway. Why does he blame his hand?
Hannah and Meg- That is exactly like in Macbeth. He alienates his hands from the rest of his body, saying that they did "Bloody work" or something like that. Maybe these are just knee-jerk reactions that people really can't control
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